2 over 4 and 4 over 8 are the same number

[BrotherMichigan]

One of the biggest issues is the quality of students that go on to become teachers. Education majors in college are, on average, the lowest achieving class of student upon graduation (source: http://www.ets.org/s/gre/pdf/gre_guide_table4.pdf). We can talk about the law of averages all we want, but when the bulk of teachers are being drawn from this pool of talent, can we really expect any other result than what we have right now?

The solution seems to be to make teaching more attractive to students who are currently studying other fields, but there are a number of barriers to this. The quick and dirty solution would be to increase teacher pay, but that's simply not going to fly for a number of reasons, mostly stemming from the fact that education in the United States is already so expensive, but I think the real problem lies elsewhere.

I am a Physics major wrapping up my PhD and would love to become a teacher despite the low pay compared to my other options, but I simply cannot deal with the students, their parents, OR the administration. Between students not caring, parents being completely delusional or completely uncaring when it comes to their child, and administrators doing everything they can to bend or weaken the rules in order to pass as many students as possible regardless of achievement, I don't think I'd last a year in a pure teaching environment at any level. The attitudes regarding education are simply too broken.

 

[Hokiefyd]

I graduated from Virginia Tech with a degree in Technology Education. I was on the Dean's List a number of semesters. I could have taught anywhere I wanted. In agreement with the above post, however, my semester student teaching at Northside High School in Roanoke, VA, essentially cured me from that.

I lost patience quickly for students who didn't give a flip about what they were doing. I lost patience quickly for parents who felt it was the school's job to raise their children -- and blamed the school for the child's poor grades (even though these same kids were the ones smoking behind the school buses after school). Attitudes regarding education are broken, but it stems from attitudes about personal responsibility being broken. It's always somebody else's fault -- whatever it is, someone else is to blame. It floors me how quickly some folks turn to self-victimization in the face of ANY adversity. Watching the news saddens me so much, I generally don't watch it anymore. Not because I'm saddened by what's happening to people, but because I'm saddened by what people LET happen to themselves. Public assistance policy seems to reinforce this behavior.

So, no, I don't teach in public schools, but I'm still a teacher. I teach Sunday School, I instruct various classes at work, I help others learn how to do brakes and change oil and things like that. I'm a teacher at heart, but I went to work in industry because the lack of personal responsibility established in these young kids saddened me so.

 

[Dave Hess]

Hokiefyd,

Did you ever tell the adults they were bad parents for not raising their kid(s) correctly ?

This is a serious question. Teachers do not get paid to raise children of parents who don't care and feel its a chore to show them responsibility.

That's why we have a trophy generation... no child should be without a trophy. Give ZERO effort, be late and don't give a [censored] = Trophy.

 

[hatt]

Quote:
I lost patience quickly for parents who felt it was the school's job to raise their children
To be fair to those idiot parents .gov has been trying it's best to take over that roll. "Children belong to the community."

 

[Wheel]

I'm thinking that kids and teachers outside the US don't suffer from entitlement.

It takes kids, teachers, and parents working together to produce educated people. I think we are missing that combo for the most part in this country.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I graduated from Virginia Tech with a degree in Technology Education. I was on the Dean's List a number of semesters. I could have taught anywhere I wanted. In agreement with the above post, however, my semester student teaching at Northside High School in Roanoke, VA, essentially cured me from that.

I lost patience quickly for students who didn't give a flip about what they were doing. I lost patience quickly for parents who felt it was the school's job to raise their children -- and blamed the school for the child's poor grades (even though these same kids were the ones smoking behind the school buses after school). Attitudes regarding education are broken, but it stems from attitudes about personal responsibility being broken. It's always somebody else's fault -- whatever it is, someone else is to blame. It floors me how quickly some folks turn to self-victimization in the face of ANY adversity. Watching the news saddens me so much, I generally don't watch it anymore. Not because I'm saddened by what's happening to people, but because I'm saddened by what people LET happen to themselves. Public assistance policy seems to reinforce this behavior.

So, no, I don't teach in public schools, but I'm still a teacher. I teach Sunday School, I instruct various classes at work, I help others learn how to do brakes and change oil and things like that. I'm a teacher at heart, but I went to work in industry because the lack of personal responsibility established in these young kids saddened me so.


I have thought of teaching, but realized college level or bust. I have no desire to work with those who can't be bothered.

I have wondered about doing more work with younger kids, especially at sunday school; but boy is it a lot of work to work with kids!

 

[javacontour]

Probably Germany. It was the German Johannes Kepler who derived the laws of planetary motion in the late 16th/early 17th century.

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
You can criticize the USA all you want, but who has the school system who produced the math and science ability to take pictures of Pluto's surface?

 

[javacontour]

Yet in many ways, it's also the unions that help make teachers the subject of criticism.

Those same unions often protect the bad teachers, often at the expense of the students and the reputation of their peers.

I do agree, if you don't have parents who are engaged, having the highest quality teachers really won't matter.

If you look at some of the responses of those who might make good teachers, you can see that a big reason they don't enter the profession is lack of parental support.

Fix the parents and you'll fix a large part of the problem.

But also, the union needs to stop defending bad teachers. If they are bad, get them out. To defend them only further damages the reputation of teachers.

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
In a lot of countries, the teachers are revered, not vilified. You will not see people saying things like what @HerrStig has posted above.

When the attitude towards the teachers is negative, you will see less investment in talent. The study quotes the average amount spent per student. How much of it is for academic purposes and how much of it is for a football stadium, etc.?

Also, average is a very poor indicator on the money spent. You have highly advantaged schools and highly disadvantaged schools. After all, our schools are funded through property taxes which means that economically depressed areas will have lower tax collections hence a smaller pot to invest in education.


Good post. Teachers are under valued and under paid in the US. The unions are the only thing that has kept the job attractive to those civic minded enough to enter the very difficult profession.

 

[Jetronic]

Well, I answered all the math questions correctly, but what I find more interesting is the dwindling numbers as the level goes up... I did use the calculator at the last question to win some time (and accuracy) but I could've done it without aswell.

I'll get the wife and daugfhter to try aswell... but the daughter is only 8 years old, so not a fair test, really.

 

[Jetronic]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
You can criticize the USA all you want, but who has the school system who produced the math and science ability to take pictures of Pluto's surface?


but did they go to school in the US? or are they even US citizens?

It's not about the schooling system anyway, it's about the mindset of the ones attending school, or not attending...

 

[AlienBug]

Originally Posted By: Wheel
I'm thinking that kids and teachers outside the US don't suffer from entitlement.


Myth.

Literally every country in the developed world frets that their children are spoiled, entitled underachievers. Your parent's generation thought the same of you, and theirs before them.

China: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Emperor_Syndrome

Norway: http://www.newsinenglish.no/2010/06/15/norwegian-youth-spoiled-and-lazy/

South Korea: http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=4171647

Australia: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-23/[censored]-australian-parents-raising-a-generation-of-spoilt-brats/5691638

India: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life-...ow/32235887.cms

England: https://psychologies.co.uk/work/are-the-youth-of-today-too-lazy-to-work.html

Google "[name of country] spoiled children" or "[name of country] lazy youth" some time.

 

[KitaCam]

^^^^^true that...
In Japan, elders complain that youngens can't read or write Japanese from the 1800s because

1. the government simplified the "spelling" of Chinese pictographs, (fewer strokes), and

2. computers complete the pictographs from a few "strokes" of the keyboard and so fewer children than ever are learning "penmanship" skills needed to write them...