2 - Cycle Fuel Mix Ratios

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New forum member, 1st time to post--but I've been reading the forum for a while!!

This post is not planned to start new ratio "wars", but I was on the Tanaka site today and saw the best explaination for different ratio recommendations for different brands of 2 stroke oil. (For information purposes, I have 20 or 30 pieces of 2-cycle equipment, buy most used and then maintain with a passion. I'm currently using Amsoil at 50:1, only because a friend ordered several quarts, and by sharing the shipping cost, it was cheaper than Echo.) Sorry for the long post!!! See below:

Q. How can Tanaka Perfect Mix accommodate my other brands of power equipment that require a different ratio than 50:1?A. Oil is a blend of components. The bulk of it is a base stock, which is oil, but its primary purpose is not to lubricate, but rather to blend with, and carry, additives that provide specific functions. The most important additive is the one that provides the lubricity. Some people refer to this additive as "bright-stock". The base oil also can blend with and carry other additives designed to accomplish different things. For example, quality oils have an additive that helps maintain the integrity of the gasoline should it be stored as mixed fuel for extended periods. Another additive may help reduce exhaust smoke.

Oil took on a marketing theme many years ago. A company who made brand A product also sells oil. How do they protect their oil business and prevent customers from buying the competitors oil? Let's say for the sake of argument that an oil blend requires X amount of the lubricity additive to adequately run an engine. The manufacturer would then formulate an oil blend with the amount of additives to reach that level when mixed at the odd ratio they prescribe for their product. As you've seen, there are 16:1, 25:1, 32:1, 40:1 42:1, 50:1, etc. However, if you analyzed these oils, you'd find very similar amounts of the actual ingredients needed to provide the life allowing lubricity (even at these odd ratios). This has been a very effective way of convincing a customer who bought a unit requiring two cycle oil to buy their brand of oil. Who wants to take a chance on a $500 machine?? If it says 42:1, the customer assumes he needs to seek out a 42:1 oil.

Tanaka Perfect Mix is what's referred to as a one-mix oil. The oil is formulated so that when mixed at 50:1, or 2.6 ounces per gallon of fuel, it contains enough of the life-giving additives to work in any of these engines. Additionally, it goes a long way in simplifying the mixing of the oil with the self measuring bottle. There are other one-mix types of oil that mix at a ratio of 100:1. Most people would look at that and think that there simply isn't enough oil to allow the engine to survive, but again, it's not the amount of base stock that is the important issue. It's what is contained within the blend. Their blend has higher percentage of the additive than does an oil that mixes at 25:1
 
Welcome to Bitog!

Lots of discussions of 2 cycle mix ratios here. Also boutique vs standard off-the-shelf.
Joe
 
Originally Posted By: Joe72Mart
Welcome to Bitog!

Lots of discussions of 2 cycle mix ratios here. Also boutique vs standard off-the-shelf.
Joe


I've noticed a fair amout of disagreement in some of the post--especially concerning "Amsoil". To be honest, most of this turns me off, but I will say that I was about ready to go to 32:1 next mix--after reading the info on the Tanaka site, I'm a bit undecided at this point--will probably stay with 50:1
 
I've got numerous 2 strokes that require ranges of 32:1 to 50:1. I run either Stihl Ultra or my stash of M1-2T at 40:1. Everything seems to run fine at that compromise.
Joe
 
Well well, I add some 2 cycle oil or about 2 ounces and about half gallon of gas and call it 2 cycle mix. It has worked for 25 years now.. Guess I am good at mixing in approx amounts. Or the machines do not really need exact amounts. You will be fine with approximations.
 
Maybe I missed it, but which Amsoil 2 stroke oil are you using?

It's likely 50:1 is perfect but without know which oil and studying the particulars I cannot say for sure.

Oh and
welcome2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Maybe I missed it, but which Amsoil 2 stroke oil are you using?

It's likely 50:1 is perfect but without know which oil and studying the particulars I cannot say for sure.

Oh and
welcome2.gif



Oops--I forgot to say--it's Amsoil Saber Pro.

For the past few years I've maintained a fleet of 2-cycle trimmers and blowers for several commercial mowers. I've learned there is a huge difference in running a machine an hour or so a week vs 30 or 40 hours week. Some guys are faithful to a specific brand of oil, others run most anything--all of them running at 50:1 and 87 ethanol gasoline. Some of these machines have thousands of run hours on them, and none have failed due to engine oil failure--at least from bearing and ring/cylinder failure. (Except for a couple that were run on straight gas.) The difference seems to be in amount of maint. that is needed. The one guy who runs any cheap brand oil has much more carbon buildup--but there are too many variables to know for sure this is due to the oil.
 
I'm no professional user of two strokes and only use standard outboards and garden stuff, no hi output motorcycles or snowmobiles.
On some machines I bought used, the previous owners seem to have added "a bit extra oil" during their use. They seem to work ok, but I don't like the thick, coked oil dripping from the exhaust or the coaly thick [censored] in the chamber and port.
All my machines say 50:1 on the caps. I have used synthetics, amsoil, mobil and an FD house brand, for a couple of years now and mix at just under 50:1, maybe 60:1. Obviously the stuff runs better with less smoke and no goo-dripping. But serously, I have neeevver seen any equpiment call for 32:1 since the 70s. But that's me.
Have run a couple of tanks of 100:1 in the 30hp evinrude/yamaha and it worked well, but mentally it felt odd eventhough lots of yamaha 20-90 outboards have 100:1 printed on them.
Soo, what about ratios?
In my view then:
- If the manual says 50:1 using *any* old oil even 10w30, I would not hesitate to go a bit leaner with a high rated new synthetic. I would not mix richer. at all.
- If the manual says use 40:1 EGD/FD, and by god, don't go thin and call the chopper to transport you home if you can't find that oil, then I would follow the manual... (this would be engines with variable exhausts and very hi power)
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On a side matter, Pablo, why do you advice to mix Amsoil richer than 100:1 when amsoil states that it is ok? Just curious.
 
I find Tanaka's explanation over simplified and if they want to claim they use bright stock, that's fine.
As for this:
Quote:
However, if you analyzed these oils, you'd find very similar amounts of the actual ingredients needed to provide the life allowing lubricity (even at these odd ratios).


I don't think this is 100% true. There are oil formulations that are very different.

50:1 with Saber Pro could be very rich in the winter in TN in an engine that isn't loaded. Probably too rich. 50:1 with Saber Pro would just be a bit rich in an engine on a super hot day in a very heavily loaded engine.

Amsoil recommends up to 100:1 ("as lean as 100:1"). Also:

Code:
AMSOIL Saber 100:1 2-Cycle Oil is recommended for 100:1 mix ratios in normal service. Richer mix ratios may be used where desired.

2.6 oz. per 1 U.S. gallon 50:1

8 oz. per 5 U.S. gallons 80:1

1.3 oz. per 1 U.S. gallon 100:1

8 oz. per 6 U.S. gallons 100:1


Amsoil Saber Pro
 
The machine where it be 16:1 to 50:1 does not matter it is the bottle of oil u BUY that counts.. The oils have gotten better over the years is the reason it got from 16:1 to 50:1. Nothng diff to the machines. so if u buy x brand and it says 50:1 for 1 gal then u mix it at 50:1 even if your machine says 32:1 back in the day. Its just about as bad to run to much(rich) oil as it is no oil.. Get scoring/fouled plugs etc with using to much oil. The less oil u can run in theses 2 stokes the better.. don't forget what keeps this machine COOL running its not the oil but the fuel.it just needs a little oil to lube the very small bearings and piston in theses machines. Just buy a good name brand oil and go with it.
 
Many professional lawn care people use a 40-1 mix in everything. Oil made for 50-1 was thought to be pushing it a little for the EPA and could shorten equipment life. So to be safe many professionals use 40-1. The last part of this equation that no one seems to know is that you should tune your equipment to this ratio. If you have an adjustable carburetor run the mixture rich until you notice a change for the worse in engine sound and then lean it out just enough to make it run sweet. This will give you the coolest running and best lubricated engine. Remember, a little excess fuel keeps the cylinder cool. Hay, i am a poet and don’t even know it.
 
Originally Posted By: amm95

[snip]
Get scoring/fouled plugs etc with using to much oil. The less oil u can run in theses 2 stokes the better.. d
[snip]



Really ?

I'd like to see evidence to back your claim please.
 
Originally Posted By: amm95
The machine where it be 16:1 to 50:1 does not matter it is the bottle of oil u BUY that counts.. The oils have gotten better over the years is the reason it got from 16:1 to 50:1. Nothng diff to the machines. so if u buy x brand and it says 50:1 for 1 gal then u mix it at 50:1 even if your machine says 32:1 back in the day. Its just about as bad to run to much(rich) oil as it is no oil.. Get scoring/fouled plugs etc with using to much oil. The less oil u can run in theses 2 stokes the better.. don't forget what keeps this machine COOL running its not the oil but the fuel.it just needs a little oil to lube the very small bearings and piston in theses machines. Just buy a good name brand oil and go with it.
OK please explain why I mix a strong 32:1 and run it in 3 different engines requiring different mixes. Oh, I run hardware store dino . Been doing this over 30 yrs. No troubles with fouled plugs or clogged exhaust ports. As for scoring, I cant say. I have had no reason to tear one down. 16: Lawnboys required that mix because those engines had bushings, not needle bearings.
 
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TDI-RICK--- As for the first (REALLY)I have got my info from a guy Still in business carries over nine brands of outdoor equipment.. that has been working on 2storkes for 50 yrs. U forget what makes the scoring (FRICTION)caused by HEAT.... The fuel keeps the machine COOL not the OIL. so if u buy good oil that says 50:1 and u run it at 32:1 u are going to get it hotter cause u are putting in LESS FUEL and more OIL. NOW if u buy a bottle at 32: one then u run it at 32:1 if u buy one that says 40:1 then run it at 40:1...

Andyd-- Yes u are right as for the older lawn boys and yes he did say some of the older 16:1 like u are talking about WOULD need to be run on the 16:1 or no more than a new 32:1 ratio with are newer oils.. Are u using a bottle that 32:1 or 40:1 or 50:1 u prob have over the 30 yrs been using bottles that says 32:1 or 40:1 anyway.. most of your walmart oils or cheaper name stuff still have all 2 or 3 ratios cause They are not as good oils.. not a problem.. This not going to happen over nite by any means on most machines. I am just letting people know as it is na d i didn't know myself. I sat down with him just 2 days ago for a half hr and had a few times b4 but I wanted to know and make sure I heard him right and was not misunderstanding him.. Like u said u are running a cheaper oil and no problems with that that prob says 40:1 or 32:1 on it any ways so u will have no problems.I am not arguing u have had no problems with it in but over time it can and prob will. Just like some people have never had any issues in 20 yrs using the E-10 gas and some have.. I myself will use reg and not E-10 until I cant get it any more for my small engines and tractor.. The 2 strokes are worse I have heard on running on E-10 than say like a 18 horse engine.. There are plenty of additive now that will help with the E-10 issue by as much as 70%. it keeps the ethenol from breaking down fast.. it can break down(separate from the gas) as fast as 7-10 days into water more less. ok hope thius helps out and good luck to all..
 
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