Base oil and additives volume % and fuel economy.

[OilUzer]

I recently watched a video that the companies get a base oil and buy the additive packages (from 3 or 4 other providers) and mix ...

Q1:
In a finished product, what is the base oil volume relative to the additives?

I'm sure it is not the same with every oil but just in general what is the typical amount? For example is it ~%75/25, %60/40, etc.

Q2:
How much or % impact to the fuel economy can be attributed to the additive packages or how is it calculated?

Again, I was reading a thread that additive companies sell different packages that for example can meet GF-x fuel economy requirements ... So when you mix that with the base oil, the fuel economy numbers should change. No?
So how does that work when the final product fuel economy requirements is what should matter or how is it calculated?

 

[Plumb Bob]

So when you mix that with the base oil, the fuel economy numbers should change. No?

The answer to that question would require expensive tests you're unlikely to find (sound results) on an online popular forum.

 

[facility1]

and the test results would not be made public information, only info that is very minimal on pds sheets,,,that tell you little on many/most popular brands. some less popular boutique brands will say more.

 

[OilUzer]

The answer to that question would require expensive tests you're unlikely to find (sound results) on an online popular forum.

I am not interested in any test results and don't care about the fuel economy either. Ask my 5.7L v8 Tundra! lol

In my question #2, I was mainly interested in the process. For example how can they put a minimum fuel economy requirements on additives if it is not the final product?

My understanding is that they sell additives that for example meet the minimum fuel economy requirements of GF-6.

However, you can't just run the additives in your engine and will have to mix it with some base oil. Unless there is more to it like additive companies already know which base oils you will be mixing it with and/or they do the tests or guarantee than it will still meet or exceed the specified fuel economy requirements when mixed with a given (or your) base oil.

 

[MolaKule]

I am not interested in any test results and don't care about the fuel economy either. Ask my 5.7L v8 Tundra! lol

In my question #2, I was mainly interested in the process. For example how can they put a minimum fuel economy requirements on additives if it is not the final product?

They don't. The economy requirement is a result of the testing of the complete formulation.

Additive companies compound the DI additive package and then with VII's and base oils, run tests in real engines.

The formula sent to the blenders specifies the DI additive, the VII's to be used, and the base oil types and viscosities to be used.

You have been here for 7 years and haven't read other posts which have explained the questions you have just asked?

W

Thread 'Oil Ingredients'

Apr 29, 2024

Hello All,

I am working to get into importing the raw ingredients of oil and fuel additives? I tried searching and maybe I didn't see it. But I was wondering if people knew some ingredients that companies like Amsoil, hot shots secret, etc. use. For example: zinc oxide, sodium nitrite, isopropyl alcohol, etc. Thank you very much for any of your help. Diesel pickups are a huge passion of mine and my new job has given me the opportunity to break into this market

• walthoyt
• Replies: 32
• Forum: OTC and Third Party Oil Additives

 

[OilUzer]

They don't. The economy requirement is a result of the testing of the complete formulation.

Additive companies compound the DI additive package and then with VII's and base oils, run tests in real engines.

The formula sent to the blenders specifies the DI additive, the VII's to be used, and the base oil types and viscosities to be used.

You have been here for 7 years and haven't read other posts which have explained the questions you have just asked?

W

Thread 'Oil Ingredients'

Apr 29, 2024

Hello All,

I am working to get into importing the raw ingredients of oil and fuel additives? I tried searching and maybe I didn't see it. But I was wondering if people knew some ingredients that companies like Amsoil, hot shots secret, etc. use. For example: zinc oxide, sodium nitrite, isopropyl alcohol, etc. Thank you very much for any of your help. Diesel pickups are a huge passion of mine and my new job has given me the opportunity to break into this market

• walthoyt
• Replies: 32
• Forum: OTC and Third Party Oil Additives

That (in bold) makes sense. Meaning the final product should have the requirements to do xyz.

However, I recently read in another thread that companies sell additives that meet for example GF-x fuel economy requirements (which was not disputed) but didn't make sense to me hence my Q #2.

As I mentioned, Q1 was based on a recent video posted here (mixing base oil with additives) and I got curious about the volume after I read about the fuel economy requirements of the additives.

As far as the other thread you have posted, I glanced at it and they are talking about raw ingredients, etc. which has nothing to with my questions!

You already answered Q2 and thank you for that.
If I find the post about additives having fuel economy requirements, I will add the link.

Q1 Volume % was just a curiosity based on a recent video posted here and with all due respect, I can't help it if some people get paranoid about it. If you think that's a big secret, you can say so. lol
I won't lose any sleep over it. It was just a curiosity!

Also being here for x many years is irrelevant. If that's the criteria, most of us should be expert in all bitog fields (oil, grease, UOA, tools, paint, electrical, etc.) by now!
This is an internet forum and people read, question or absorb whatever peaks their interest at any given moment!

 

[weasley]

To be clear, "companies sell additives that meet that meet for example GF-x fuel economy requirements"... when blended as defined by the additive company. The additive package itself meets no engine oil requirements, but it is certified to meet whatever specifications or requirements are appropriate when blended into the appropriate base oil(s) at the prescribed dosage. The additive company will have done all the testing in various base oils to know this.

Oils are generally blended by mass %, since volume % blending is affected by density. An oil can be as simple as 'base oils + additive pack' (maybe 2 or 3 different ingredients) or as complicated as 'base oils plus numerous individual components' (could be 8, 9, 10 or more ingredients).

 

[Tom NJ]

Re Question #1, most grades of PCMO have about 75-90% base oil and 10-25% additives, plus or minus depending on the grade.

 

[OilUzer]

To be clear, "companies sell additives that meet that meet for example GF-x fuel economy requirements"... when blended as defined by the additive company. The additive package itself meets no engine oil requirements, but it is certified to meet whatever specifications or requirements are appropriate when blended into the appropriate base oil(s) at the prescribed dosage. The additive company will have done all the testing in various base oils to know this.

Oils are generally blended by mass %, since volume % blending is affected by density. An oil can be as simple as 'base oils + additive pack' (maybe 2 or 3 different ingredients) or as complicated as 'base oils plus numerous individual components' (could be 8, 9, 10 or more ingredients).

Thank you!

So I wasn't crazy. I thought I had read about additives meeting some fuel economy requirements in one of the posts somewhere ... but couldn't find the thread and didn't spend much time searching for it either. It just triggered my curiosity and thanks for the clarification.

 

[OilUzer]

Re Question #1, most grades of PCMO have about 75-90% base oil and 10-25% additives, plus or minus depending on the grade.

Thank you!

Now that I know all the secrets, I am going to blend my own oil and sell ... The big question is if I can compete with the Warren Distribution and their $3-4 / qt (Kirkland/ST) licensed full synthetic oil.

I have about 7 boxes (70 qt) of Kirkland 5W-30 in the garage. Maybe after I run out of oil, I'll start making my own.