2.3L Escape, FL910 and questions....

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badtlc

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My first question, is the Super Tech equivalent of this MC filter have a dome end bypass? I think the ST version is an E-Core. I looked into the filter and you can see the inside of the filter media plainly. There is a plastic device in there to support the media from the inside.

Second, the filter on this vehicle is mounted vertically. Does the type of ADBV make a difference in this case?

I'm asking because I'm considering what to do get for my 2007 escape. The prices have shot up on the MC FL910. I'm debating between:
MC FL910 ~$4.50
Wix 53148 ~4.25
Super Tech ~$3.00
 
On ecore filters the rubber seal at the thread end is both the ADBV and the bypass valve. Under normal conditions the seal opens enough for the oil to flow into the filter. Under bypass conditions the rubber folds back further opening another set of holes that allows the oil to bypass the filter. So it isn't a dome end bypass.
 
Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
On ecore filters the rubber seal at the thread end is both the ADBV and the bypass valve. Under normal conditions the seal opens enough for the oil to flow into the filter. Under bypass conditions the rubber folds back further opening another set of holes that allows the oil to bypass the filter. So it isn't a dome end bypass.


While not a dome, it doesn't sound like an optimal solution either. Is there any chance it isn't an Ecore?
 
Its your call but subing the MC for a ST for a 1.50 is nutz. The filter itself media and amount of media is far superior to a ST.
 
Here's a better description from the Champ Labs Web site:

How does your by-pass design function?
The by-pass valve is made up of the nitrile valve and the threaded mounting plate. In a normal operation, the oil flows into the outer ring of holes on the mounting plate, through the filter element and out the threaded hole to the engine. If the filter were to become plugged, or during cold start, the oil would flow through the inner ring of holes, displacing the rubber seal, and then flow out the threaded hole to the engine.
 
What about the Wix?

And is my assumption ADBV isn't important in this application correct?
 
Originally Posted By: badtlc
And is my assumption ADBV isn't important in this application correct?
If your filter sits base-up that would be correct, although some will argue that in some applications the ADBV also helps hold the oil column up inside the engine. If you aren't getting any start-up clatter, then you're good to go.
 
Another thing I've read is that an ADBV is there to prevent oil from coming back down into the filter and then washing the crud off the filter--backflushing it--and allowing it back into the engine. This could happen no matter what angle the filter is mounted.
 
So does the FL910 or the Wix have the better ADBV?

I thought I read somewhere the Wix always allows a small amount oil to bypass the filter media even when not in bypass mode. Is that true?
 
Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
Another thing I've read is that an ADBV is there to prevent oil from coming back down into the filter and then washing the crud off the filter--backflushing it--and allowing it back into the engine. This could happen no matter what angle the filter is mounted.


If there is some back flushing, then the first time the engine is started it will be pushed back through the filter again. The farthest point any dirty oil can get do to a leaky ADBV is the oil pan ... and that's the last place it was before it got sucked up by the pump and sent to the filter anyway.

The ADBV's main purpose is to prevent "dry-starts" by helping to keep the filter full of oil when the engine is turned off. If the oil does bleed out of the filter due to a leaky ADBV, the flow rate is so slow that I highly doubt any large trapped particles in the media's pleats would dislodge and move past the ADBV.
 
Quote:
The ADBV's main purpose is to prevent "dry-starts" by helping to keep the filter full of oil when the engine is turned off. If the oil does bleed out of the filter due to a leaky ADBV, the flow rate is so slow that I highly doubt any large trapped particles in the media's pleats would dislodge and move past the ADBV.


No. The primary purpose it to keep the media from being back flushed. Dry starts are merely a customer complaint item. If keeping a filter full was their true purpose, then no nitrile ADBV could ever be spec'd ..no Fram or ST would be allowed on any engine (or many engines).

ADBV's are ALLOWED to leak. They only need to delay or slow the back wash action.

Every filter would be OEM required to have a silicon ADBV if this was ever an important issue.

Yes, A FEW DO spec silicon ADBV's ..several Fords to be accurate ..but there is NO PROHIBITION from the OEM against using other filters.

So, we can kinda throw the "damage" thing out the window. It's a "feel good" aspect.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
The ADBV's main purpose is to prevent "dry-starts" by helping to keep the filter full of oil when the engine is turned off. If the oil does bleed out of the filter due to a leaky ADBV, the flow rate is so slow that I highly doubt any large trapped particles in the media's pleats would dislodge and move past the ADBV.


No. The primary purpose it to keep the media from being back flushed. Dry starts are merely a customer complaint item. If keeping a filter full was their true purpose, then no nitrile ADBV could ever be spec'd ..no Fram or ST would be allowed on any engine (or many engines).


Sorry ... disagree. Just because an ADBV is made of nitrile rubber doesn't mean it can't seal and help prevent dry-starts. It's main purpose is to prevent oil from escaping the filter when the engine is off. Like I said, if some "dirty" oil did escape, it will just be sent right back to the filter next time the engine runs. It helps prevent BOTH things from happening.

http://www.knfilters.com/oilfilter.htm
"Anti-drainback valve (where applicable) eliminates dry starts, prevents oil from draining back into crankcase during engine shutdown."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_filter
"Filters mounted such that oil tends to drain from them usually incorporate an anti-drainback valve to hold oil in the filter after the engine (or other lubrication system) is shut down. This is done to avoid a delay in oil pressure buildup once the system is restarted; without an anti-drainback valve, pressurized oil would have to fill the filter before travelling onward to the engine's working parts. This situation would cause rapid wear of moving parts due to lack of oil in the meantime."
 
Nope. The industry spec's just don't require them to hold ..silicon or nitrile.

Again, how do you explain (and I'm not offering this as a straw man defense) how just about every nitrile ADBV will fatigue after 3000 miles at preventing "startup rattle" ..yet there's no prohibition for using them on engines that may see up to 7500 miles of use? The noting of the noise is somewhat indifferent to the filter design. That is, one may have an engine that has start up rattle with a less than full filter ..and those that will not. The operator is totally ignorant of whether they have a full filter or an empty one. They may never know the difference.

Pete C. may chime in. This is what outfits like Champ Labs do when they don't have the OEM data and are producing filters for other applications ..same for Purolator (all except Ford Aftermarket filters - they produce the OEM spec). The ADBV has to hold for so long ..that's it. They reverse engineer them.

Now there may be a unicorn or two ..and one would surely reason that these engine manufacturers would INSIST on silicon ADBV and totally prohibit nitrile.

Wouldn't this be some alleged warranty thing? I mean, one would imagine that dry starts would trump the length of your OCI to some meaningful degree. Yet nitrile ADBV are alleged to "meet or exceed" OEM spec's for every filter offered by Purolator ..Champ ..and our all time favorite ..Fram with the orange can ..and these can and do produce dry starts evidenced by start up rattle due to an empty filter.
 
Show me some technical data (I can't find anything) that says the main purpose of the ADBV is to prevent contamination from back washing out of the filter media. Sure, it probably prevents that to some degree, but I doubt it was the original design intention of the ADBV.
 
Found this:
http://www.freshpatents.com/-dt20090416ptan20090095665.php

Anti-drainback valve for an oil filter description/claims

The Patent Description & Claims data below is from USPTO Patent Application 20090095665, Anti-drainback valve for an oil filter.

BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION
Liquid filters, such as an engine oil filter, may employ an anti-drainback valve which operates to prevent oil from draining from the passages within the engine during shut-down thereby providing a measure of protection against noise emitted by components, such as the valve train components, during re-start of the engine.

Further describing the structure of the anti-drainback valve 36, the body 38 has a flexible, radially and axially outwardly, annular valve portion 50 of frustoconical shape with a lip 52 on its outer perimeter. The lip 52, in the absence of oil pressure within the main oil gallery 25, normally seats on the closure plate 18, radially outward of the inlets 22. Thereby preventing oil 15 contained within the oil filter 10 and hence the oil passage 24 from draining through the inlets 22 and subsequently siphoned to the sump 11. The valve portion 50 diverges axially outward and is flexible to lift off the closure plate 18 in response to pressure at the inlets 22 resulting from operation of the oil pump 29 to permit flow to the filter cartridge 28.
 
Now one of your comments I agree with. In the original filter study (kzine something or other) the guy seemed obsessed on "allowing dirty oil to to return to the sump" ...which was exactly where it came from ..in just about the exact same condition. One pass pretty much looks like another ..so it was kinda a waste of time to comment on it ..which he did to a good degree for a non-point. It's kinda along the lines of seeing a family with 6 kids and pointing out that sex was involved in the process ..and something was wrong with it.

It's the rate of drain back that needs to be controlled. Vertical mounts on some engines don't require it probably due to no static oil column above the filter ..and the siphon being broken when the centerwell is exposed.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
THE actual? I think it's more like AN actual.

..and can't you find another color besides red?


If you would have read the red, then you'd see the claimed purpose of the ADBV. There was nothing said specifically about the concern of contaminated oil from back draining out of the filter - only keeping the filter full so there was less dry-start action. It's really a non-issue anyway because if oil does back drain, it goes back to the dirty side of the system anyway.
 
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