1999 Columbine n Colorado

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Have you ever seen combat antiqueshell?


Yes, I have.


Our worst enemy is not "over there".

Then you know the government did not kill any "innocent" civilians trigger happy, immature, individuals that believed they had immunity from prosecution murdered people. There is a fine line of self defense and murder.



Enslaved? You mean that because I can and do travel where I want to and when. I can speak my political and moral point of views. I can chose where I want my kids to have a education. I can chose where I want to live. I can petition my representatives to the government and I do. I have a right to bear arms but I chose not to. I can even chose what vehicle I want to drive.
So I am enslaved? If this is the case what about the people in Iraq, Afghanistan, Kenya, Somalia, UAE, Bahrain, and China. To name a few places that I have first hand knowledge of, that can only dream about the choices you and I have.
Yet the government is enslaving me? Enslaving me on what grounds?



dave1251 there is NO debating with you. Your mind is closed.


It is not closed at all. But what you are suggesting is not impossible but not likely. You are talking about people who work for the government. To cast a net that wide would take way too much planning, effort, resources and competence from too many people someone would of tripped over their own shoe laces by now. Sorry but if you want optimum results you need to keep it simple. That is why it is not a Manchurian Candidate like you imply. It is just a twisted intelligent individual who had a very simple well thought out plan.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: dwcopple


are you sure about this? that HE plotted and schemed this up himself?


The courts already sealed Holmes school records as well.

Holmes father worked for a company that was working in conjunction with DARPA.

As far as anyone can tell NOBODY has been able to positively identify Holmes as the ACTUAL shooter, since the shooters face was covered by a mask.

Security guards that were ALWAYS on duty at this theater were BOTH absent this day, on top of the fact that this was the debut of the movie, so if anything there should have been MORE guards on duty this day.

This happened just days before Hillary Clinton was to attend a UN meeting to sign an agreement on small arms that would infringe on Second Amendment rights...

This whole event smells to high heaven. [/quote]

Are you talking about the treaty that the US and Russia is holding up because it would take too much profit from both countries?
The treaty that the Senate has stated that it will not ratify?
You realize it takes a 2/3 majority from both houses to ratify a treaty right?

The shooters father was a author on PCS moves for the Navy. Yeah that is a DARPA researcher there.

You know why people do not believe in conspiracy theories? Because they are way too complex and full of holes.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: dave1251


It is not closed at all. But what you are suggesting is not impossible but not likely. You are talking about people who work for the government. To cast a net that wide would take way too much planning, effort, resources and competence from too many people someone would of tripped over their own shoe laces by now. Sorry but if you want optimum results you need to keep it simple. That is why it is not a Manchurian Candidate like you imply. It is just a twisted intelligent individual who had a very simple well thought out plan.



Except there are ultra top secret groups, commonly known in public as black op organizations that while loosely aligned to "certain" entities, in top positions in
"the government" they have a huge latitude in what they do and how they do it. The reasons are obvious enough, that being separate they are free of the legal issues of government. Also these individuals are probably the very best and brightest, with brilliant minds, logic, and discipline. Not anything like our "guvmint" which also the public has been conditioned to "believe" that it can do NOTHING right. Pretty clever plot.

 

[expat]

Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
So what it the real cause of the events that took place just 20+ miles from my house?

Is the problem caused by there being so many guns available that people eventually turn crazy, and buy up weapons and ammo and then find easy targets to use as stress relief?

No, guns and ammo don't cause people to turn crazy.

Is the problem the fact that crazy people are allowed to roam around with the rest of society freely, and are somehow able to get a hold of guns, and then find easy targets to use as stress relief?

In this case, no, because up until a couple of months ago, this guy was a highly intelligent member of society, who, for unknown reasons, turned dark inside, and plotted up a horrible situation, and then actually followed through with it over the course of several months.

There's no way to predict when a good person is going to turn sour, and become a threat. How would you effectively watch every person in the US for this rare set of circumstances?

Should you force every person in the US to carry a weapon every second of their life, and require them to use it the moment someone makes a "threatening" move?

Oh [censored] no. Then we have more of what's happened recently in Florida. You wind up with someone who kills someone else, and weather its true or not, he simply says he felt threatened by the kid, and killed him when he thought he was in mortal danger.

Or do you ban all guns in the US, like several other countries have tried to do? Only the criminals will have guns then, is the rally cry.

Guess what?
Most criminals look like normal people, up until the moment that they commit a crime. Some are easy to pick out of the crowd by their actions and behaviors, but those aren't the ones you need to worry about most of the time, aren't they?

So you can't take away the guns, what can you do?

How about we simply price them into oblivion, like the price of Ferrari's? Tax the living snot out of them, and the ammunition that's needed to operate them, so that only the rich, and the criminals can have them?

That's not going to do anything but make current law abiding citizens into criminals themselves, is the counter-argument to that suggestion.

So, what's the solution?

Go about your lives.
That's my recommendation.

You can't predict who the nutcase is going to be, and if they're going to go nuts today, or 20 years from now.

You can't remove all the guns, and even if you did, they will use some other tool to kill with. This kid created bombs in his apartment, and rigged up booby traps, by himself. Maybe his tear gas canisters were self made? Anyone know if his were store bought, or self made yet?

Its a lost cause trying to predict crazy people behavior.
Its a lost cause trying to make reactionary legislation that only law abiding citizens will follow.
Its a lost cause trying to remove all the various ways to kill people from the citizens.

So, honestly, just go about your lives, and live each day the best you can. If you've got a gun, try not to kill innocent people with it.

BC.


Best post so far

 

[Pablo]

The event and timing stinks. Look at Aus.

You can't legislate away stupidity or evil or insanity. In fact, I believe doing that has inverse unintended consequences. Have people really turned smarter because of all our laws and lawsuits?

I would like to add a bit more. In one week, I reloaded 1400 rounds, took delivery of probably 2000+ rounds. Most of those are gone, many in magazines that hold 30 rounds. This alone makes me an extremist, a nut job, or whatever label you want despite the fact I am an extremely peaceful person, and have not even intentionally killed an animal (well mammal or bird) in many years. The concept that some folks here would slap a label on me, is frankly scary.

Lastly, wow I read the full page+.

 

[ottotheclown]

Reading some of these threads makes you realize maybe you better get a gun. Holy Moly ! Glad we can now watch the Olympics. And this is on a motor oil web site wow!!

 

[TC]

“Despite the tough political climate for federal gun control legislation, a coalition of LAW ENFORCEMENT GROUPS on Thursday called for background checks on all gun buyers and a ban on high-capacity ammunition magazines after the Colorado shooting rampage.”

“After looking at what happened in Aurora, Colo., who could be in favor of these high-capacity magazines?” asked Hubert Williams, president of the Police Foundation and chairman of the National Law Enforcement Partnership to Prevent Gun Violence. James Johnson, the Baltimore County, Md., Police Chief, joined other law enforcement officers at the National Press Club to declare that a high-capacity magazine like one used in the Aurora shooting “simply has no place in civilian hands. It is ridiculous to argue that hunters or civilians who own weapons for self-defense need a 100-round drum magazine,” he said. “As we have seen, people don’t stand a chance against this kind of firepower.” While the weapons and bullets police say were used by Aurora shooting suspect James E. Holmes were legally purchased, Williams said that expanding background checks to cover all gun purchasers is needed. “We know that background checks do work and do prevent other dangerous people from acquiring firearms,” he said. Expanding background checks would affect only people prohibited from buying guns and would have no impact on law-abiding citizens’ ability to buy or sell guns to other law-abiding citizens,” he added.“
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-police-groups-gun-control-20120726,0,3711366.story

 

[ottotheclown]

Nice to get input like this! THANKS ALOT! Nothing like knowing what you are talking about.

 

[wtd]

Here is another case of people blaming an object instead of the person behind it and knee jerk so called fixes. Banning high cap mags, assault rifles, and making it harder to purchase a firearm only works on law abiding citizens. Do people honestly think that banning this stuff or putting more restrictions on getting a firearm are going to deter a criminal? I have worked in a prison for almost 21 years and I'm here to tell you, all that stuff does not matter to a criminal or someone who becomes criminally inclined. That is why I laugh every time I see a "no firearms" sign. Do you think a criminal is going to comply with a sign like that if they already have the intent to do something bad? Some people need to get some common sense.

Look at prohibition and the drug war. Neither one worked. A ban on guns would not work either.

I think Bladecutter up above has made the best point. You have to go on with your life because there are no guarantees on anything in life.

Wayne

 

[uc50ic4more]

Originally Posted By: dave1251
You mean that because I can and do travel where I want to and when.


Cuba.

 

[dave1251]

I can go to Cuba anytime I like.

 

[antiqueshell]

Any US citizen can go to Cuba, you take a plane trip to Canada and get a connecting flight from there. LOL