1996 Civic engine tick/knock/tap noise when cold

[QS_User]

I have a 1996 Honda Civic, 1.6L D16Y7 non-vtec engine, 5-speed manual, 207,000 miles. I have had the car since fall 2010, and put 51,000 miles on it. I first heard this ticking noise after the engine was started one time when it was really cold out, but it went away quickly. I had Valvoline conventional 5w30 in there at the time, and I have been running Purolator Pureone filters on it the whole time. After that, I don't ever recall hearing a noise until fall of 2011. I had Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 in it at the time, and I was consistently hearing a ticking noise for a couple minutes after start up. So I drained the PP, and put in Mobil Clean 10w30. It quieted down maybe 20%, so it seemed quite a bit better compared to what it had been. The noise no longer sounded like high pitched tick, and more like a deeper knock/tick. Then I tried a 5w30 again, and the noise went back up. So switched it back again. Since then I've tried lots of oils and tried to get the noise as quiet as possible. This fall, the noise was quite a bit louder than fall 2011, so it seems to be getting worse.

Here is a list of the oils I've used and the experience that I had with them.

1. Valvoline Conventional 5w30 (Small tick one time) 3000 miles, October-December 2010
2. Mobil Clean 5000 Conventional 5w30 (No Noise) 3000 miles, January-March 2011
3. Quaker State Ultimate Durability Synthetic 5w30 (No Noise) March-August 2011
4. Pennzoil Platinum Synthetic 5w30 (No noise when it was summertime, significant tick when weather turned cold) August-November 2011
5. Mobil Clean 5000 Conventional 10w30 (Less tick, takes longer to start ticking) 3500 miles, November 2011-January 2012
6. Super Tech (Mobil) Conventional 5w30 (a little louder tick)
7. Back to Mobil Clean.
8. Valvoline and Quaker State Conventional Mix 5w30 (Quietest the car has run recently, quieter than Mobil Clean) 4000 miles, April-June 2012
9. Mobil Super Conventional 5w30 (Sounds like super tech, kind of loud. At the end of the oci, I drained 1 QT. and added 1 QT. of Rotella 15w40 to see if a thicker oil would help, seemed to make it very slightly worse) 2500 miles, July-September 2012
10. Back to Mobil Clean 10w30 (Quieted down compared to Mobil Super, but got louder as it got colder) 4000 miles, September-December 2012
11. Havoline Deposit Shield 5w30 + LubroMoly (A little quieter than the Mobil Clean) 2000 miles so far.

I have not yet tried using 15w40 HDEO, but I kind of doubt it would help.

The noise is coming from the block area, and not the valvetrain. It does it especially at about 1700-2000 rpms just idling when cold. It is louder the colder it is outside (loudest when below 30 degrees, you hear some pretty sharp knocks for about 10 seconds), and gets pretty quiet when its above 65 degrees overnight. If you try to drive it when it's still cold, you hear it somewhat loudly in the 2100-2400 rpm range. Once the engine warms up you don't hear any noise until the engine has been running for quite a while, and you only hear it very faintly if you have the windows open when the transmission is in 2nd gear, and about 2100-2400 rpms.

So, I'm pretty puzzled at what this noise is. I read that it could be a rod bearing knock, but would the car drive for 51K miles with a rod knock, and only get a little bit louder? I don't know, and am very curious if this is possible to happen or not. Another possibility, could it be piston slap?

The noise sounds kind of like this video when the engine is cold, and you rev the engine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ9JLcW6FoI

Sorry for the long post, but I would greatly appreciate any advice you could give on what to do.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Roadkingnc]

Sounds like piston slap to me, usually does not hurt anything

 

[JZiggy]

My 95 civic does the same thing. Seems to get worse with time. No effect changing oil types. It's noticeable even in the summer but is downright loud in the winter. I installed an oil pan heater for this express reason. A timer kicks on 2 hours before my commute and gets the oil to about 120F or more. This greatly reduces the piston slap noise in intensity and duration.

 

[chubbs1]

Harmless I am sure, stick with the Valvoline conventional or Maxlife and call it a day. You have tried every oil out there lol. seems the Valvoline conventional was the quietest.

 

[Clevy]

Adam?

 

[MBS500]

it happens often when its really cold outside. Yon can try thinner oil next winter.

 

[DrDusty86]

My Zx2 does this EXACT same thing. I have tried 0w30 GC and RP 5w20 and RP 5w30. no noticeable difference..still loud as heck. My used oil analysis come back fine so I'm not worried. Mine quiets in about 2 minutes. It does not make any noises above 50*

 

[Lead Shoes]

I had a d16y7 with 210k on it and it made that noise for the first minute on cold starts, then it made just the usual slight sewing machine noise, but switching to Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w30 helped quiet it down on cold starts.

 

[crazyoildude]

dont lose sleep over it if it was bad it would always be there this can also be cause by carbon buildup was high test used a lot? use two tanks of tecron and see if that helps.

 

[Turk]

My 185,000 mile Sierra does the same thing.

When I clean the carbon out & take out on a long, occasional hi-revving run, it goes away.

Try that (with the Techron mentioned, or Amsoil PI or Redline SI-1).

Report back.

 

[VicVinegar]

My 202k D16Y8 motor ticks as well. It's been consistent for a while and no mechanic has mentioned it. You'd think if there was a problem they'd be trying to get me to open my wallet up.

 

[kschachn]

I believe I have exactly the same noise on my daughter’s 96 Accord with the F22B2 engine. It started right after I got the car for her, and at first was only noticeable on startup but now 45,000 miles later it makes the sound all the time (and sometimes pretty loudly). BTW if you spend some time searching on Google you will find people asking about The Noise but I haven’t found any solutions.

My engine uses no abnormal amount of oil, doesn’t appear to have any significant power loss or any other ill effects, and other than the knocking noise it acts normally. It hasn’t gotten any worse lately, after initially progressing from “only when cold” to “all the time” it has stayed at that level.

On my car it sounds like it is coming from the upper block and/or head but I have never taken the head off to see if anything is amiss. But the noise is pretty noticeable at times.

It is not RPM dependent like a rod knock would be, other than at idle it is rather quiet. But it’s not as if at 2400 RPM you hear it – it happens right above idle and stays the same as RPM increases. When cold you hear it at idle too.

Oil viscosity has no effect. I have tried everything from 0W-20 to 20W-50 and nothing changes. Some days it almost sounds like an exhaust leak or a cracked manifold but I can’t see anything and I just put on a brand new factory Honda exhaust. I really don’t think that is the problem.

I've also tried 93 octane thinking it might be pre-ignition but that had no effect. I also pulled out the distributor and checked that for a worn bushing but it was fine. I've adjusted, re-adjusted, checked and re-checked the valve clearances and they are fine. It also eats no coolant.

Anyway, that’s my story and I’m sticking to it. If you ever find out anything I would sure like to know

 

[InvalidUserID]

My '99 D16Y8 does the same. Not very loud or noticeable but I listen very carefully at every start-up. I'm weird like that.

 

[VicVinegar]

Originally Posted By: InvalidUserID
My '99 D16Y8 does the same. Not very loud or noticeable but I listen very carefully at every start-up. I'm weird like that.


Not weird. I sit in the garage and listen to it regularly just to make sure it is the same as it has always been.

 

[mechtech2]

Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
My Zx2 does this EXACT same thing. I have tried 0w30 GC and RP 5w20 and RP 5w30. no noticeable difference..still loud as heck. My used oil analysis come back fine so I'm not worried. Mine quiets in about 2 minutes. It does not make any noises above 50*


Make sure you use the Motorcraft FL400s filter.
There are no hydraulic lifters or tensioners to bleed down.
Sometimes the VCT [variable cam] can get a bit dry after a long sit or oil change [cam is spring loaded and can push oil out].
But that filter is #1 - an incorrect spec'd one can drain out.

 

[DrDusty86]

John, I tried The Mobil 1 M1-211, Puro P! 20195, K&N, Wix & RP oil filters.. I have a few Fl400's in my stash & 2 FL-2005s.. I have only started to have issues with the M1-211s. I have always regarded them as a quality filter.
I will swap out the 3k used m1-211 for a FL-2005 in my stash to see. The 2005 was the origonal spec filter in my manual for the Zetec. I have more faith in the 2005 than the 400S. What is your take on the 400S vs the 2005 for the Zetec?

 

[vwGLI]

Definitely try MMO!

I have seen people treated this issue with MMO more than once!

 

[Astro14]

Have you put a stethoscope on this to pinpoint the noise?

A leaking exhaust manifold can make a tick that sounds a lot like valve train noise...as the metal expands the leak closes up....the noise quiets.

If it's been going on for a while, you can see carbon tracks by the manifold leak...

 

[Lead Shoes]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Have you put a stethoscope on this to pinpoint the noise?

A leaking exhaust manifold can make a tick that sounds a lot like valve train noise...as the metal expands the leak closes up....the noise quiets.

If it's been going on for a while, you can see carbon tracks by the manifold leak...


That's not a bad plan actually, D16's are notorious for starting hair line cracking on the exhaust manifold right at the o2 sensor bung. And mine was actually starting to crack as I began to notice the noise now that he brings it up.

 

[QS_User]

UPDATE:

I have since switched to Pennzoil conventional 5w30, and the noise has been cut way down from any other oil I have tried so far. It's not only way quieter, the duration of it making noise has been cut by more than half. Actually, I tried Pennzoil 10w30 last summer, and it still was noisy, although better. My explanation? This engine seems to like a big dose of moly, and likes a thin startup viscosity.

So, run Pennzoil 5w30 in your noisy Honda!