1995 Cummins 6B5.9, 15882 miles, VPB 15W-40

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May 22, 2012
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La Bamba's Cummins powerplant finally got a looonnnnggg overdue oil change.

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The wear metals look really low due to the large amount of make-up oil. A gallon of that make-up oil was added only 1200 miles before the oil change. So, assume the actual wear metals are probably between 2 and 3 times what is shown. If so, it means my silicon is between 26 and 39ppm, which is bad. My main concern was the copper - it was very high last time. I assume it was due to a new oil cooler that was installed before the oil change that the previous sample was based on. The oil cooler ran for maybe 2k miles on the oil that was installed after the reseal and oil cooler change job. That oil was dumped and not tested. The next load of oil was run for almost 10k, and that gave the high copper reading. The oil cooler is a steel assembly that is furnace brazed in a dry hydrogen atmosphere, with pure copper used as the braze metal. It flows so well that it left a thin film of copper covering virtually every surface, even far from any joint. Evidently a lot of the copper made it into solution in the oil before it became passivated.

The oil consumption is due to leakage past the turbo oil seals, which is in turn due to poor turbo oil drainage. I've been meaning to address this for the past year, but it requires installing a turbo drain bung in the pan just below the pan rail. That, of course, means removing the pan. I've been putting it off for that reason, but after having to add a full gallon of makeup oil I finally decided it was time. Fortunately, I was able to acquire a beat-up but useable pan to swap in place of my pan on the engine. This way I could continue using the truck while I install the bung(s) in the pan, sand it, and paint the interior with Glyptal 1210 and the exterior with Cummins beige acrylic urethane.

Even though the oil that is in the sump now will only get a few k miles on it before I swap the pans again I still plan on running a UOA on it. In the brief time it will be used I shouldn't need to add any make-up oil. Then I can get a better idea of how much contamination it's accumulating per 1k miles.

I will say this: even with the amount of make-up oil I added and the ok-ish insolubles, the crankcase and oil pan were absolutely disgusting. The company that owned the truck this engine came out of did 5k oil & filter changes. When I dropped the pan to inspect it prior to the swap it looked very nice and clean. Likewise, when I had the tin and head off to re-seal the engine everything still looked decently clean, for a diesel. I was doing 6k OCI's at that point. This time, with 16k on the oil, the crankcase was quite scuzzy. No sludge, but scuzzy nonetheless. Even though the insolubles and other test results were ok, Im still not going to deliberately run long OCI's. I'm going back to 6k miles.
 
Sounds exactly similar to my 95 power stroke. The turbo seals went south & was sucking in oil into the engine at the turbo. It looked like it had terrible blow by. I sold it to another fella with that knowledge & told him to get that fixed asap. I didn't like the idea of driving around potentially running out of oil and locking up the motor. I'm happy to hear you've had enough of adding oil & will get this fixed. It's a heck of a lot cheaper than ruining the engine. Thanks for the post.
 
Thanks!

The oil consumption hasn't always been that bad. It got worse in the past year or so. I hope the turbo seals don't have to be replaced. Its not hard to do, but the kit is about $120 and I eventually plan on switching to a different turbo (HE351ve variable geometry unit). That swap wont get done until next fall at the earliest, so if the turbo seals are toast I won't have any choice but to replace them, along with the bearings.
 
Thanks!

The oil consumption hasn't always been that bad. It got worse in the past year or so. I hope the turbo seals don't have to be replaced. Its not hard to do, but the kit is about $120 and I eventually plan on switching to a different turbo (HE351ve variable geometry unit). That swap wont get done until next fall at the earliest, so if the turbo seals are toast I won't have any choice but to replace them, along with the bearings.
My 95 power stroke gradually got worse too. At your mileage it's inevitable for turbo seals to need replacing. I understand waiting until you can get all the parts you need to get the job done. As they say "better late then never" ha ha.
 
The turbo seals were replaced when I got the engine ready to swap. That was maybe 60,000 miles ago. So, the seals don't really have that many miles on them.
 
MaxPf 9 quarts of make up oil over 15000 miles isn't bad. Check out this chart from Cummins that shows the tipping point for what Cummins Inc considers hi oil consumption. In other words unless you added more than 38 quarts of oil in your time period, nothing to worry about. :)

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MaxPf 9 quarts of make up oil over 15000 miles isn't bad. Check out this chart from Cummins that shows the tipping point for what Cummins Inc considers hi oil consumption. In other words unless you added more than 38 quarts of oil in your time period, nothing to worry about. :)

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Yep, charts like that cover just about everyone so they can say it's "Normal". 400 miles per quart is a tired, beat up, & worn out engine ready for rebuild.
 
Yep, charts like that cover just about everyone so they can say it's "Normal". 400 miles per quart is a tired, beat up, & worn out engine ready for rebuild.
yeah, when you know more about it than the engine manufacturer you offer your own opinions. :) 400 miles to the quart equals out to about 2 tablespoons of oil per hour... it isn't really all that much..
 
yeah, when you know more about it than the engine manufacturer you offer your own opinions. :) 400 miles to the quart equals out to about 2 tablespoons of oil per hour... it isn't really all that much..
Yeah, let's disregard that at that point there is little compression to start a diesel engine. Leaving a skid mark trail wherever you go & Blow-by blowing oil all over the place. Similar to saying "Yeah Nothing to see here but add more oil" :LOL:

Potentially leaving one stranded on the side of the road any day when it decides to seize. Forget that extended "family trip" out of sheer inconvenience of that happening. When they get that bad producing the most wear that I call it the J shape. New engine starting on the left & worn out on the right.

Of course you can bottle feed the engine with oil but to say it isn't all that much is ignoring the condition of an engine in that situation.
I've been there, I have experience with this first hand, & one that I would like to not have to endure again. It's not just my opinion.

Hopefully, you're not saying the engine is not seriously worn out at that point? Drinking oil is certainly a standard symptom of a worn engine especially at that rate!

You notice your chart says "ANY TIME DURING COVERAGE PERIOD". Surely, you know what they are saying. "Where not going to cover most worn out engines, under warranty, b/c we've come out with this Normal policy. But don't worry just keep adding high rates of oil because we're not going to fix it for you".

I wish I could give Cummins credit for this nonsense but unfortunately there are plenty of other engine builders that do this same thing. It's to save their bottom dollar period.
 
Yeah, let's disregard that at that point there is little compression to start a diesel engine. Leaving a skid mark trail wherever you go & Blow-by blowing oil all over the place. Similar to saying "Yeah Nothing to see here but add more oil" :LOL:

P
some engines use more oil than others.. if they aren't leaking, and otherwise run fine you add oil and keep on running... I had a GMC 3500 w 6.5 TD in the 90's. it used a qt of oil every 800 miles from the day I bought it... not like I was going take it apart to see what was wrong, as it was that way all 100,000 miles I drove it.. I guess it bothers some people more than others.. then again, worked in a fleet all my life and know that diesel engines use some oil is fairly normal.. some more than others. you could put 100 of them in service at the same time point and find oil consumptions that varied from being in the hi 800 mile per quart range to some of its brothers than were going 3000 miles before needing a drink.. Never thought it was abnormal, just factory differences. Anyway, the truck in question in this thread really ddidn't exhibit abnormal oil use...
 
some engines use more oil than others.. if they aren't leaking, and otherwise run fine you add oil and keep on running... I had a GMC 3500 w 6.5 TD in the 90's. it used a qt of oil every 800 miles from the day I bought it... not like I was going take it apart to see what was wrong, as it was that way all 100,000 miles I drove it.. I guess it bothers some people more than others.. then again, worked in a fleet all my life and know that diesel engines use some oil is fairly normal.. some more than others. you could put 100 of them in service at the same time point and find oil consumptions that varied from being in the hi 800 mile per quart range to some of its brothers than were going 3000 miles before needing a drink.. Never thought it was abnormal, just factory differences. Anyway, the truck in question in this thread really ddidn't exhibit abnormal oil use...
If it doesn't have any other symptoms than just drinking oil than I suppose I could handle that. In my experience the drinking oil came with all the other headaches of a worn out engine.

I agree that 1,765 miles/1 quart on OP truck isn't bad. My cadillac 4.6L drank about 1 qt/1000 miles at 50-95k miles & of course GM said that was normal.
 
Sorry for the delayed reply. I've been out of commission for the last couple months.

Despite the Cummins spec, I consider a quart every 1500 miles as unacceptable. Thankfully, my oil consumption isn't internal to the engine. It isn't rings or valve guide seals. Its just a turbo issue. Pretty straightforward to fix. Hopefully I will get down to only losing a quart or less every 6k OCI.
 
Sorry for the delayed reply. I've been out of commission for the last couple months.

Despite the Cummins spec, I consider a quart every 1500 miles as unacceptable. Thankfully, my oil consumption isn't internal to the engine. It isn't rings or valve guide seals. Its just a turbo issue. Pretty straightforward to fix. Hopefully I will get down to only losing a quart or less every 6k OCI.
you can repair the turbo and hope it improves, but that 6000 mile mark without adding might be unobtainable..
I have a 6.7 in my 16 Ram. We are heading to Alaska soon with the 12000 lbs fifth wheel in tow. I fully expect to use a gallon of oil in what will be a 12000 mile round trip..
 
Keep in mind that my engine is in a Blazer, albeit with a heavily modified frame and chassis. It only grosses about 7k. With a 12k fiver and your truck's curb you are grossing at least 20.5k. Besides weight, you have air resistance to contend with and you will be towing in mountains part way. With that extra work being required, your engine will undoubtedly consume more oil. On top of that, 6.7's will naturally consume a bit more oil than a 5.9 due to the larger bore and longer stroke. If everything is good the difference isn't going to be huge. Only about 10%-15%. Basically comparable to the difference in displacement, percentage-wise.

All told, if you werent working the engine as hard, say by driving empty on flat terrain, than 1 quart every 6k should be reasonable. Thus, I don't consider that to be an unreasonable expectation with my engine in otherwise sound condition. I will agree that if the rings were clapped out it would be totally different, but that isnt the case with my engine.
 
All told, if you werent working the engine as hard, say by driving empty on flat terrain, than 1 quart every 6k should be reasonable. Thus, I don't consider that to be an unreasonable expectation with my engine in otherwise sound condition. I will agree that if the rings were clapped out it would be totally different, but that isnt the case with my engine.

I'm thinking my point is that some engines consume a bit of oil, others are negligible but adding a quart or two in one of these between changes isn't unheard of.. or anything to worry about. I know some people don't like the thought of adding oil as a sign of something wrong but I don't think that way.
 
I agree that a certain amount of oil consumption can be normal, but excessive consumption is a sign of a problem.
 
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