1988 Cadillac brougham MS5K 10w-30 4000 miles

[daman]

Originally Posted By: SS1970chrysler
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: SS1970chrysler
yes, it is.
Originally Posted By: daman
Is that the Oldsmobile 307 engine?

Thats what i thought,strange tho I've had two of these engines in olds cutlasses in my youth and they were good little engines(bullet proof) ran smooth used no oil nothing like what your describing,maybe your wasn't taken care of,etc.


my last one of these motors leaked copious amounts of oil as well. the only wet area I can find is near the rear seal. If it was only driven locally like I used to drive, the oil loss would be far less for the same miles. The last 307 I had was only 15 years old at the time and had about 65k on it. This one is 24 years old with 112k on it presently. It starts right up and runs smoothly. no misses, sputters, klunks, or rattles and runs me 92 miles per day at 60?mph. I can't say I'd take any "heroic" measures to save this one or the Riv other than basic maintenance and repairs.

I had a few,,307's,350,403,455 all good engines,boy i miss the old days lol.

 

[SS1970chrysler]

Originally Posted By: daman

I had a few,,307's,350,403,455 all good engines,boy i miss the old days lol.


I've had quite a few.

Not my first rodeo here. All GM's I ever had listed below.
'76 impala w/350 2bbl- leaked a qt every 100 miles or so
'77 Olds 88 w/350 4bbl- shot a pushrod through the hood
'67 Catalina w/400- no mechanic problems with this one
'62 Buick w/401- still running great

'72 Lesabre w/350 4bbl- the leaks used to smoke from under the car
'73 lesabre w/350 4bbl- 1st engine grenaded, 2nd block cracked, 3rd snapped a cam
'73 Centurion w/350 4bbl- not many leaks, but liked trans work
'76 caddy w/500 EFI- squirted from seal every time you put into gear
'85 Caprice w/305 4bbl- ate a cam
'85 Caprice w/305 4bbl- ran hot and destroyed rear ends
'85 Delta 88 w/307 4bbl- lots of leaks and trans issues
'77 Caddy w/425 4bbl- threw a rod, but didn't really leak
'77 Caddy w/425 EFI- leaked a bit and liked to crack exhaust manifolds
'83 Caddy w/HT4100- just plain bad
'77 Riviera w/350 4bbl- just leaks a lot
...and of course, the aforementioned '88 caddy.

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: SS1970chrysler
First run of oil through my caddy after it's resurrection from the junkyard. Used MS5k 10w-30 as the fill and used it for top-offs as well. Pronto oil filter used and same oil was used for adding. An STP "knockoff" was used about 3k into the run. Now it has QSGB 5w-30 and AC filter in the car. Despite the numbers, the car runs great and I really like driving it.

"This first sample from your Caddy showed high aluminum, iron, and lead readings compared to
averages, which are based on about 2,500 miles on the oil. Aluminum may show a little piston wear, and
lead shows bearing wear. Iron is from steel parts -- it's not as far out of line as other metals are, but it is still
somewhat high. Note the elevated viscosity as well, though no contamination was found in the oil. If the
engine runs well, our only suggestion for now is to check back at a similar interval for another look.
Hopefully metals hold steady or improve."

Car- 1988 Cadillac Brougham 307 4bbl
Miles on oil- 3,920
Miles on car- 111,598
sample date- 12/28/2012
make up added- 6 quarts

Aluminum- 23
Chromium- 5
Iron- 140
Copper- 6
Lead- 28
Tin- 1
Molybdenum- 11
Nickel- 0
Manganese- 2
Silver- 0
Titanium- 30
Potassium- 4
Boron- 8
Silicon- 10
Sodium- 298
Calcium- 2306
Magnesium- 19
Phosphorus-854
Zinc- 1081
Barium- 0

SUS viscosity @ 210 F- 66.2
CST viscosity @ 100 C- 11.93
Flashpoint in F- 400
Fuel%- Antifreeze%- 0
Water%- 0
Insolubles%- 0.5


Looks rather grim and it would be a good move to see if you have serious sludge. Not sure what you can see down the filler, but removing the sump and cleaning the oil pump filter screen might be a good move. If things are not too bad I would switch to a major brand HM oil and keep the OCI short. Not sure why your manual is so anti 40 grade, but you might want to find out why, as moving up to a 40 might reduce the oil consumption.

 

[SS1970chrysler]

Not exactly sure why, but the '85 manual said to avoid them based on tests run by GM in 1984 and the '88 manual stresses 30w oils only. I'm actually thinking that both CAFE and the quality of 10w-40's back then had a lot to do with that. later on in this run, I'll be adding some 10w-40 to see what happens.

 

[addyguy]

With wear metals and insils. that high, this is just gunk being cleaned out of the engine...not bad considering.

I'd try the 'Restore' oil additive....claims to 'plate up' cylinder walls to reduce consumption...can't hurt at this point.

Other than that, I'd just consider make-up oil a cost of running this car....

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: skyship
Originally Posted By: SS1970chrysler
First run of oil through my caddy after it's resurrection from the junkyard. Used MS5k 10w-30 as the fill and used it for top-offs as well. Pronto oil filter used and same oil was used for adding. An STP "knockoff" was used about 3k into the run. Now it has QSGB 5w-30 and AC filter in the car. Despite the numbers, the car runs great and I really like driving it.

"This first sample from your Caddy showed high aluminum, iron, and lead readings compared to
averages, which are based on about 2,500 miles on the oil. Aluminum may show a little piston wear, and
lead shows bearing wear. Iron is from steel parts -- it's not as far out of line as other metals are, but it is still
somewhat high. Note the elevated viscosity as well, though no contamination was found in the oil. If the
engine runs well, our only suggestion for now is to check back at a similar interval for another look.
Hopefully metals hold steady or improve."

Car- 1988 Cadillac Brougham 307 4bbl
Miles on oil- 3,920
Miles on car- 111,598
sample date- 12/28/2012
make up added- 6 quarts

Aluminum- 23
Chromium- 5
Iron- 140
Copper- 6
Lead- 28
Tin- 1
Molybdenum- 11
Nickel- 0
Manganese- 2
Silver- 0
Titanium- 30
Potassium- 4
Boron- 8
Silicon- 10
Sodium- 298
Calcium- 2306
Magnesium- 19
Phosphorus-854
Zinc- 1081
Barium- 0

SUS viscosity @ 210 F- 66.2
CST viscosity @ 100 C- 11.93
Flashpoint in F- 400
Fuel%- Antifreeze%- 0
Water%- 0
Insolubles%- 0.5


Looks rather grim and it would be a good move to see if you have serious sludge. Not sure what you can see down the filler, but removing the sump and cleaning the oil pump filter screen might be a good move. If things are not too bad I would switch to a major brand HM oil and keep the OCI short. Not sure why your manual is so anti 40 grade, but you might want to find out why, as moving up to a 40 might reduce the oil consumption.


Because 40 grades in the 70-80s sucked. The VII would cause sludge. Come on. An expert like you didn't know that? I'm surprised.

 

[caravanmike]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: skyship
Originally Posted By: SS1970chrysler
First run of oil through my caddy after it's resurrection from the junkyard. Used MS5k 10w-30 as the fill and used it for top-offs as well. Pronto oil filter used and same oil was used for adding. An STP "knockoff" was used about 3k into the run. Now it has QSGB 5w-30 and AC filter in the car. Despite the numbers, the car runs great and I really like driving it.

"This first sample from your Caddy showed high aluminum, iron, and lead readings compared to
averages, which are based on about 2,500 miles on the oil. Aluminum may show a little piston wear, and
lead shows bearing wear. Iron is from steel parts -- it's not as far out of line as other metals are, but it is still
somewhat high. Note the elevated viscosity as well, though no contamination was found in the oil. If the
engine runs well, our only suggestion for now is to check back at a similar interval for another look.
Hopefully metals hold steady or improve."

Car- 1988 Cadillac Brougham 307 4bbl
Miles on oil- 3,920
Miles on car- 111,598
sample date- 12/28/2012
make up added- 6 quarts

Aluminum- 23
Chromium- 5
Iron- 140
Copper- 6
Lead- 28
Tin- 1
Molybdenum- 11
Nickel- 0
Manganese- 2
Silver- 0
Titanium- 30
Potassium- 4
Boron- 8
Silicon- 10
Sodium- 298
Calcium- 2306
Magnesium- 19
Phosphorus-854
Zinc- 1081
Barium- 0

SUS viscosity @ 210 F- 66.2
CST viscosity @ 100 C- 11.93
Flashpoint in F- 400
Fuel%- Antifreeze%- 0
Water%- 0
Insolubles%- 0.5


Looks rather grim and it would be a good move to see if you have serious sludge. Not sure what you can see down the filler, but removing the sump and cleaning the oil pump filter screen might be a good move. If things are not too bad I would switch to a major brand HM oil and keep the OCI short. Not sure why your manual is so anti 40 grade, but you might want to find out why, as moving up to a 40 might reduce the oil consumption.


Because 40 grades in the 70-80s sucked. The VII would cause sludge. Come on. An expert like you didn't know that? I'm surprised.
i believe it was: the 40 weights of that time would cause the ring packs to stick. but today's 40 weights do not have that problem anymore! mike

 

[dave1251]

This looks terrible. But there is only two things that are going to happen. Either after a few OCI's your engine will get cleaned up and everything will improve or your engine will need to be replaced. That is how I see it.

 

[SS1970chrysler]

The story behind this car as I got it was that it was stolen by some kids from the original owner. They took it joyriding and crashed it in a snowbank and left it there. It had about 2500 miles on the oil since last serviced by Firestone (sticker in window). The car went to the junkyard from the insurance company and the owner of the yard's son drove it a bit for a summer and parked it off to the side to save it as a spare engine for his car: an '85 delta 88. Last year, he sold that car and didn't need the spare anymore, so I got it. As far as I can tell, it hadn't been serviced since 2010.
I think I'll get my $ worth from it and that it will settle down some. It was cheaper by far to buy this and just drive it than to fix my previous Granada or run the Riviera. I do these UOA's just for fun and curiosity's sake as there isn't much real world info on these older cars in actual use.

 

[jegs]

Might want to change the PCV valve and breather also.

 

[DinoOil]

Originally Posted By: RTexasF
That oil consumption is horrific! A case of oil in the trunk is a must.



Lol!

 

[steve20]

Agree wholeheartedly with the venerable 307-4V. The only one I had was in an 83 Cutlass Supreme Coupe--256K and never burned a quart in its entire life. Only thing used were Castrol GTX 10-40 & the OCOD.
After the 3nd trans-it went to the boneyard

Thanks for posting the UOA!

 

[SS1970chrysler]

Originally Posted By: DinoOil
Originally Posted By: RTexasF
That oil consumption is horrific! A case of oil in the trunk is a must.



Lol!

Actually, I keep about a 6-pack of oil on the floor on P-side near heat vents. When I know it's low, I drive then pour the oil in after the heater warms it. Gets the job done faster.

 

[tightwad]

Very high usage for that engine. Olds motors were known for low oil consumption compared to Chevy and Buick. My '83 Olds 307 hardly used any oil at all. Without knowledge of the engine's history, it's hard to know what's going on. It may be just be stuck rings, bad PCV valve or one of the other usual suspects. But if the engine was overheated, the rings may be toast. To leak that much oil, I think you would see it everywhere.

 

[addyguy]

In another thread, he mentions re replaced the PCV valve - will be interesting to see if that helps....
I agree that this one will most likely keep running - the 307 was a much better engine that the Chev. 305 of the same period.

 

[SS1970chrysler]

Not quite. I cleaned out the PCV valve and replaced the breather element. No one has that valve around here, though you can get another type to fit. It uses the same one as my '77 Buick, with a hose barb on both ends. Breather is the can on valve cover type with the hose to the air cleaner. The element inside can be removed with needle nose pliers. Got nearly an ounce of goo from this one. PCV valve and hose were clear and functional. Also shot some carb cleaner through the hose while engine running to clean the ports some.

Bottom rear of engine and trans/crossmember area are wet with oil, so I know the rear seal is leaking.

 

[SS1970chrysler]

While I'm not pulling the motor to fix the seal, I did re-torque the oil pan bolts and replace a missing bolt. Consumption/loss is now roughly 25% of what it was with all repairs combined.

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
In another thread, he mentions re replaced the PCV valve - will be interesting to see if that helps....
I agree that this one will most likely keep running - the 307 was a much better engine that the Chev. 305 of the same period.



I always thought it was the other way around?