1985 vs 2001 BMW 5-series performance comparison

[ffracer]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
You need some DOT cheater slicks to get that M5 to hook up!

That's the problem with big power RWD cars, 600ish is about the limit. More than that and you start to have traction problems.

That's why a Veyron is AWD, only reliable way to put 1k hp down.


Huh? I replied then thought about it. For a road car, that's very true. A road based suspension will have trouble putting down the power with out some mods that are major tradeoffs.

A F1, Indycar, or NASCAR all have in excess of that and have lots of grip and very low weight, except for the stock car. With the right suspension setup 600 hp is just the starting point!

Indycars in the 70s had 900+hp, F1 in the 80s had 1.5L turbos with 1500 hp in qualifying trim, Can-Am had Porsches and Chevrolet powered McLarens with 1500 hp.

That's what makes it fun! A 125 cc shifter kart is a good way to experience the same feeling.

Maybe I'm a little nuts, but Mark Donohue (Penske's first driver) said, you only have too much power when you can lay rubber down at the exit of one corner into the braking zone of the next.

 

[hattaresguy]

Have you ever driven a really powerful RWD car? Race cars are a totally different animal I'm talking about street cars.

A 900hp Corvette is a handful to say the least, and when its wet out forget about it. My uncle has a highly modified 1967 Mustang that is probably putting down 725ish at the rear wheels. Suspension is all done, essentially its just a 67 shell. But when you get on it, OMFG I almost went into a ditch, its way to much power for that car. Goes pretty good when it hooks up though. Now compare that to the new Lambo that's AWD, similar power, nail the Lambo and it goes.

If you look at the exotics they are capped around 600-700 in RWD trim, because anymore than that and they start to become a handful to drive. I think 335's are about as wide as they make street tires and they can only handle so much. Traction control helps a lot but its kind of pointless if you are always smoking the rear breaks and killing power.


400-600 is plenty for street use.

That's why in the real world cars like the GTR will destroy a lot of cars that are faster on paper. They are AWD, and computer controlled, plus forced fed so they don't lose power when atmospheric conditions are not perfect like NA motors. So they can bang out wicked fast 0-60 times regardless of the driver. All but the fastest and best launched RWD cars will lose to them at the stop light, and if they race continues there only hope is passing farther down the track.

Guys like to hate computer controls but at the end of the day they only do what a good driver would have done anyway, and unlike a human computers don't make mistakes. They do it perfectly all the time and faster than we can react. A computer can shift a transmission in less time than it takes a human to think about it and for their brain to start to send a command to their arm. I love a nice manual everything car as much as the next guy, but you won't catch me picking a race with a GTR unless I'm in something very hot. Because if that driver knows how to click a few buttons and floor it he is going to bang out a 3 second 0-60 time and embarrass me if I miss a shift of roll on the power to fast off the line and spin a bit.

 

[hattaresguy]

But at the end of the day, in the real world [censored] happens. Paper is just theory, in practice numbers don't always hold up. So meh.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
The car will break loose in 3rd gear when on it at over 100Km/h...... It shouldn't.


Those 300 lb. valve springs in the Town Car sure make a difference!

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: urchin
The newer models are outrageously expensive, overly complicated, not very reliable, loaded with gadgets that don't contribute to the driving experience, bloated and not well balanced, and expensive to maintain too.


Since we're drifting way OT, if this thread even had a real OT, I'll throw this out there.
WRT long-term useability, the older car beats the newer car hands down.
I run into a guy now and then who has a gorgeous '85 535i.
To look at it, you'd swear that it's a low mileage survivor, and you'd be wrong.
It's the guy's daily driver and it has 250K+ on it.
I don't think any E39 will survive to see that kind of age and mileage.
Too much expensive stuff to break, as it will.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
The car will break loose in 3rd gear when on it at over 100Km/h...... It shouldn't.


Those 300 lb. valve springs in the Town Car sure make a difference!

You and my valve springs!

Don't forget the 500lb'ers for my other 302! LOL! Where'd that 300 come from BTW? I'm not even sure how heavy the ones on the TC are!

Actually, bringing up the Lincoln, I had a set of Yokohama's that came off a 'vette on it, and they were like epoxy! Similar size the the tires on the BMW.

Somebody in my tire thread suggested that these tires may have hardened up. The don't squeal, and they don't leave visible rubber on the road when spinning, so I'm thinking that is a possibility.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
You and my valve springs!

Don't forget the 500lb'ers for my other 302! LOL! Where'd that 300 come from BTW? I'm not even sure how heavy the ones on the TC are!

Actually, bringing up the Lincoln, I had a set of Yokohama's that came off a 'vette on it, and they were like epoxy! Similar size the the tires on the BMW.


I actually may have confused 300 and 500. You mentioned having some high pressure springs in one thread ages ago, obviously referring to your Capri, but I needled you about having extremely high pressure springs in your Town Car.

I don't even remember what brand tires were on the Town Car. They were factory sized tires, long life all seasons of some sort, and they just lasted forever. Whatever they were, my parents drove the car for years, then I got it (the PO smoked cigars and even after shampooing, the residual odour drove my dad bonkers, so I got the car), drove it for years, and they were never replaced, and still good when I traded it off.

I think they were hard as rocks, too, but that wasn't noticeable with the Town Car's ride, of course. I didn't drive it aggressively at all, either. Hard acceleration is a recipe for bad mileage in a Town Car, and we're not exactly loaded with the twisty roads in Saskatchewan, either. With most of the roads I drove on in the years I had the Town Car, between the straightness and the lack of traffic, I could have set the cruise and fixed the steering wheel straight with the seat belt and climbed in the back for a snooze.