'16 Honda Pilot 90.2k mi; 5W30 Kirkland 3.4k mi

Joined
May 21, 2017
Messages
2,197
Location
TX
Most recent UOA for my Pilot. Oil was in use for approximately 4 months. First time using 5w30 in the Pilot, prior to that only 0w20 was used.

First time seeing Tin detected and reported. What would be the source for this metal to show up on UOA?

IMG_5279.webp
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Agreed; the amount of Tn is inconsequential.
Further, without knowing the details of how the ICP report is generated, it may be a fractional amount.
Everything looks essentially "normal" in terms of wear, contamination, and lube parameters.
 
Agreed; the amount of Tn is inconsequential.
Further, without knowing the details of how the ICP report is generated, it may be a fractional amount.
Everything looks essentially "normal" in terms of wear, contamination, and lube parameters.
Thank you. Can you elaborate on “how ICP report is generated”?
 
Last edited:
Tin is usually from the rod or main bearings. 1 ppm is nothing to worry about for now, but Honda issued a recall last year for rod bearing failures on these engines, and it affects some 2016 Pilots. If the tin keeps increasing, that's something you'll want to look into.
 
Tin is usually from the rod or main bearings. 1 ppm is nothing to worry about for now, but Honda issued a recall last year for rod bearing failures on these engines, and it affects some 2016 Pilots. If the tin keeps increasing, that's something you'll want to look into.
Unfortunately (or fortunately) my VIN is not included in the recall. For now. NHTSA is investigating Honda for more cars to be included
 
1 ppm tin (symbol Sn) - that's basically zero. Don't worry about it.
Not that I’m worried, more so I’m curious. With car’s my manufacturing date falling into the the time range of the engines being recalled, but my VIN not being included, I’m kind of getting mentally ready for the worst. But if I can catch it early enough, 25$ spent on the UOA are justified. My plan is to run another 3k, do another UOA and cut the filter open (got the proper cutter so pictures should be pretty). On this oil change I haven’t noticed anything out of ordinary, nothing visually in the oil drained. Thank you for your feedback
 
Perhaps you should consider sending in a virgin sample with your next used sample. If the next used sample pops a higher tin level, but the virgin sample is the same, it can help drive better/more accurate conslusions.
 
Perhaps you should consider sending in a virgin sample with your next used sample. If the next used sample pops a higher tin level, but the virgin sample is the same, it can help drive better/more accurate conslusions.
Good idea. I’ve searched online and looks like PQIA had 1ppm of tin in this oil when oil. But to know for sure definitely VOA would make most sense.
 
Get your head around what 1ppm is...1 Sn ping pong ball in a room of 999,999 non-Sn ping pong balls.
 
Thank you. Can you elaborate on “how ICP report is generated”?
My point is that the report numbers are whole intergers. We don't know how the data is reported (displayed) in terms of bias ...
Can the ICP delineate in fractional amounts? If so, how does the measured amount end up getting reported? (rounded up? truncated? etc ...)
 
What is the margin of error on these wear metal readings, in an UOA? +/- how many ppm?
Have to ask the lab and see what the accuracy of the method/equipment is. Regardless 1 ppm Sn is basically irrelevant whether it's 0.5 ppm or 1.4.
 
Have to ask the lab and see what the accuracy of the method/equipment is. Regardless 1 ppm Sn is basically irrelevant whether it's 0.5 ppm or 1.4.
Called the lab and inquired about their testing methodology. Essentially, testing equipment they use is “precise” enough to detect as little as 1ppm, however it doesn’t measure in decimals. So 1ppm doesn’t necessarily means there was a “whole” 1ppm detected, just presence of particular metal is identified and round to an even value.

Had a hard time getting them to run and actual fuel dilution test. Guy’s reasoning was they since viscosity was still in spec for 5w30, they just estimate. Sounded BS to me. Virgin Kirkland 5w30 starts at ~11 cSt. UOA measured at 9.3. Quite a bit of reduction if you ask me. After back and forth they finally agreed to run the darn test. Will post an update UOA once I receive it
 
Back
Top Bottom