I know this has probably already been covered but with the advent of “flank” drives or the equivalent where the force is applied on the flat portion of a bolt or nut, is a 12 point box end wrench any more likely to round off a fastener than a 6 point?
12 point versus 6 point wrenches
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The short answer, yes. The only advantage I see a 12 point having is in very tight areas where there is limited space to position the wrench to turn it.
I'd say it depends on the condition of the fastener hex. If the nut or bolt is in good shape, both the 6 and 12 point wrench will work relatively equally well. On a worn fastener hex, the 12-point has a distinct chance of further rounding the fastener.
I like my wrenches 12-point due to the point demarpaint raises and my sockets 6-point. If I have a worn fastener, I'll use a socket if at all possible.
I like my wrenches 12-point due to the point demarpaint raises and my sockets 6-point. If I have a worn fastener, I'll use a socket if at all possible.
Originally Posted By: Rick in PA
I'd say it depends on the condition of the fastener hex.
And the quality of the wrench and its dimensional accuracy.
I'd say it depends on the condition of the fastener hex.
And the quality of the wrench and its dimensional accuracy.
I own some 6pt wrenches but they are new in the roll they came in, if they weren't Proto i would have tossed them in the bin years ago.
They are the slowest most miserable form of wrench i have ever worked with. 6pt box is a throwback to horse and buggy axle wrenches.
They are the slowest most miserable form of wrench i have ever worked with. 6pt box is a throwback to horse and buggy axle wrenches.
I think 12 point is better when everything is in good shape. More angles to get on the nut.
When you want to "break" something loose, like a brake bleeder valve that is rusty, 6 point is the only way to go.
What I truly don't "get" is 12 point Sockets...
When you want to "break" something loose, like a brake bleeder valve that is rusty, 6 point is the only way to go.
What I truly don't "get" is 12 point Sockets...
I have both and use 6 pt if I have enough swing otherwise 12 pt.
Originally Posted By: Falken
I think 12 point is better when everything is in good shape. More angles to get on the nut.
When you want to "break" something loose, like a brake bleeder valve that is rusty, 6 point is the only way to go.
What I truly don't "get" is 12 point Sockets...
+1
I think 12 point is better when everything is in good shape. More angles to get on the nut.
When you want to "break" something loose, like a brake bleeder valve that is rusty, 6 point is the only way to go.
What I truly don't "get" is 12 point Sockets...
+1
There are a few 12pt fasteners out there. Ford has used them on their driveshaft pinion flanges quite a bit.
Originally Posted By: Falken
I think 12 point is better when everything is in good shape. More angles to get on the nut.
When you want to "break" something loose, like a brake bleeder valve that is rusty, 6 point is the only way to go.
What I truly don't "get" is 12 point Sockets...
!2 point sockets are very useful in tight areas like some belt tensioners. Some bolts or nuts are in such a tight space you cant get a 6 point on within the swing arc or the ratchet, a 12pt does the job nicely.
I break bleeders looks with a ratchet and 6pt socket or a special air tool if they are really rusted then a normal wrench once its broke free
I think 12 point is better when everything is in good shape. More angles to get on the nut.
When you want to "break" something loose, like a brake bleeder valve that is rusty, 6 point is the only way to go.
What I truly don't "get" is 12 point Sockets...
!2 point sockets are very useful in tight areas like some belt tensioners. Some bolts or nuts are in such a tight space you cant get a 6 point on within the swing arc or the ratchet, a 12pt does the job nicely.
I break bleeders looks with a ratchet and 6pt socket or a special air tool if they are really rusted then a normal wrench once its broke free
I've gradually eliminated almost all my 12-point sockets. With the advent of fine-ratchet drives, there's not much need to have them around anymore, since they without a doubt DO put more stress on the fastener. As others have said, if the fastener isn't worn then no problem, so long as you are careful to keep the socket completely square onto the head. But when was the last time you saw, for example, an oil drain plug that didn't have some wear on the points- mainly caused by 12-point sockets being sloppily used.
They are occaionally handy because there are a few 12-point bolt heads out there (the bolts that fasten some 1960s vintage Chrysler steering boxes to the K-member), and they also fit on square-head bolts and plugs (like differential fill/drain plugs) But other than that, count me in the "6-point is better" camp. For sockets, anyway. For box-end wrenches 12-point makes sense. I don't use those when a lot of force is needed anyway.
They are occaionally handy because there are a few 12-point bolt heads out there (the bolts that fasten some 1960s vintage Chrysler steering boxes to the K-member), and they also fit on square-head bolts and plugs (like differential fill/drain plugs) But other than that, count me in the "6-point is better" camp. For sockets, anyway. For box-end wrenches 12-point makes sense. I don't use those when a lot of force is needed anyway.
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It depends on how tight/old the fastener in question is and the amount of clearance. I would use a 6 point to break a really tight one loose or one that has been there a while to prevent stripping the fastener. Even with the advent of "flat" wrenches, a 6 point virtually guarantees that it will not round it off. Otherwise, I would use a 12 point.
Both have their uses and I do not see one replacing the other.
Both have their uses and I do not see one replacing the other.
Friends don't let friend buy 12 point sockets!!!
There are alot of variables that go into this subject. Both the size of the fastener and the quality of the wrenches are the two biggest factors in my opinion. Smaller size fasteners are more prone to damage from a 12 point socket or wrench. A very high quality 12 point box end is much much less likely to damage a fastener. As far as 6 point wrenches go , I think they have their place. I like to use them when servicing battery terminals and also brake bleeders. I will also grab a larger 6 point when backing up a nut while using a impact on the bolt. The can be handy , but with a quality 12 point wrench they are not necessary. Snap on , Williams Supercombo , Wright Wrightgrip , SK SuperKrome along with Cornwell ,Mac and Matco are all very high quality American made 12 point wrenches. Id say get the very best 12 point wrench set you can get and get 6 point in craftsman should the need ever arise.
Originally Posted By: Rick in PA
I like my wrenches 12-point due to the point demarpaint raises and my sockets 6-point. If I have a worn fastener, I'll use a socket if at all possible.
Yep, combo wrenches are almost useless with a six point box end. Just can't work with them in tight spaces (that a socket won't fit into).
On the other hand six point sockets with a fine tooth ratchet make 12 point sockets obsolete in almost all situations where I can use sockets on hex head bolts and nuts.
I like my wrenches 12-point due to the point demarpaint raises and my sockets 6-point. If I have a worn fastener, I'll use a socket if at all possible.
Yep, combo wrenches are almost useless with a six point box end. Just can't work with them in tight spaces (that a socket won't fit into).
On the other hand six point sockets with a fine tooth ratchet make 12 point sockets obsolete in almost all situations where I can use sockets on hex head bolts and nuts.
Originally Posted By: Trav
They are the slowest most miserable form of wrench i have ever worked with. 6pt box is a throwback to horse and buggy axle wrenches.
Well said sir.
They are the slowest most miserable form of wrench i have ever worked with. 6pt box is a throwback to horse and buggy axle wrenches.
Well said sir.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: Trav
They are the slowest most miserable form of wrench i have ever worked with. 6pt box is a throwback to horse and buggy axle wrenches.
Well said sir.
I have long pattern 6 points not because I want to, but because I have to. I too prefer to use the standard length 12 points, but the weather, the highway department and all their salt sometimes have other ideas.
Originally Posted By: Trav
They are the slowest most miserable form of wrench i have ever worked with. 6pt box is a throwback to horse and buggy axle wrenches.
Well said sir.
I have long pattern 6 points not because I want to, but because I have to. I too prefer to use the standard length 12 points, but the weather, the highway department and all their salt sometimes have other ideas.
Trav:
Do you like the ratcheting 12 pt boxes or prefer a socket?
Do you like the ratcheting 12 pt boxes or prefer a socket?
I 100% prefer 12 pt wrenches of any type, they just find the bolt head easier that many times are in a blind area.
6pt are okay as someone pointed out for holding a bolt while you spin the nut off with an impact but that's about it as far as I'm concerned. I use 6pt sockets most of the time but 12pt can be invaluable in some real tight spaces.
One example is some serpentine belt tensioner that use a hex head, many belt tools don't ratchet its just a long thin bar with a drive square on the end. with a 6pt its either in the radiator support one way or against the A/C hoses the other way, a 12 point puts it right in the spot you can lever it.
They make a ratcheting version but its also thicker which can be a problem with some V engines crammed in there horizontally.
Buy the best wrenches, ratchets, sockets, pliers and screwdrivers you can afford even if you have to build a set piecemeal you wont be sorry.
Less damaged fastener heads, less skinned knuckles and worse from slipping tools and in the end the cheap junk cost more than good stuff when you keep having to replace it or repair damage done by the tool.
Torx, inside 12 pt and allen sockets only buy the best, there is very little room for sloppy fit and cheap steel with these, a rounded out fastener especially a recessed one can be a nightmare.
6pt are okay as someone pointed out for holding a bolt while you spin the nut off with an impact but that's about it as far as I'm concerned. I use 6pt sockets most of the time but 12pt can be invaluable in some real tight spaces.
One example is some serpentine belt tensioner that use a hex head, many belt tools don't ratchet its just a long thin bar with a drive square on the end. with a 6pt its either in the radiator support one way or against the A/C hoses the other way, a 12 point puts it right in the spot you can lever it.
They make a ratcheting version but its also thicker which can be a problem with some V engines crammed in there horizontally.
Buy the best wrenches, ratchets, sockets, pliers and screwdrivers you can afford even if you have to build a set piecemeal you wont be sorry.
Less damaged fastener heads, less skinned knuckles and worse from slipping tools and in the end the cheap junk cost more than good stuff when you keep having to replace it or repair damage done by the tool.
Torx, inside 12 pt and allen sockets only buy the best, there is very little room for sloppy fit and cheap steel with these, a rounded out fastener especially a recessed one can be a nightmare.
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