10W vs 10W-30 vs SAE 30 cylinder wear
- Thread starter G-MAN
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I wonder how long it takes to drain the SAE30 out of the family tractor during one of your cold spells?
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The PZ LL was only 2.4 ..so does that rule it out in wearing the "20" thingie
According to SAE J300, a 20 grade oil must have High-Shear-Rate Viscosity (mPa-s) at 150°C min of 2.6.
This thread is having profound implications across the board . . . I mean PROFOUND!
I like the idea of SAE 30 having a superior film strength compared to VII ridden multi-grade oils.
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According to this chart SAE 30 provides better protection even at low temperatures between 20 -30 degrees Centigrade. That's contrary to all I've ever read.
Note that it's cylinder wall temp.
It's the period before the anti wear adds kick in and help.
I have always liked using SAE30, especially when towing. I'm very glad I was able to cash in on the Delo400 SAE30 $1/gal sale a while back. My Jeeps run great on it. The UOA on my trail beaten YJ was pretty good.
I'll be posting a new UOA of my Mom's Kia Rio on Delo400 SAE30 soon.
I'll be posting a new UOA of my Mom's Kia Rio on Delo400 SAE30 soon.
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This thread is having profound implications across the board . . . I mean PROFOUND!
What other board has an Admin who "mixes it up" like me?
----! You're crazy!
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This thread is having profound implications across the board . . . I mean PROFOUND!
What other board has an Admin who "mixes it up" like me?
----! You're crazy!
I wish I could be crazy like G-MAN; being normal and sane is very boring.
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This thread is having profound implications across the board . . . I mean PROFOUND!
What other board has an Admin who "mixes it up" like me?
----! You're crazy!
I wish I could be crazy like G-MAN; being normal and sane is very boring.
(said in the manner that the French vampire in the theater responded to the women in the audience when she said "Take me!" in Interview with the Vampire)
Wait yr turn!! It's an acquired skill to S-cap~ the mundane!
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This thread is having profound implications across the board . . . I mean PROFOUND!
What other board has an Admin who "mixes it up" like me?
----! You're crazy!
I wish I could be crazy like G-MAN; being normal and sane is very boring.
(said in the manner that the French vampire in the theater responded to the women in the audience when she said "Take me!" in Interview with the Vampire)
Wait yr turn!! It's an acquired skill to S-cap~ the mundane!
And this from the guy who was running 0w10 in his mini van, which under the hood looked like the clearance table in the plumbing section at Home Depot.
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..but I escaped!! (some say from the asylum
) You've got to be someone who can't resist the temptation of "Whatever you do, don't push that button!" or "Don't cross the red line!!"
(for the moment -envision the classic Star Trek "in the round" Roman theatrical format)
For every boundary ..every frontier ..there are those who refused to be denied!!
(for the moment -envision the classic Star Trek "in the round" Roman theatrical format)
For every boundary ..every frontier ..there are those who refused to be denied!!
More data here: 1st slide of Page 6. Effect of viscosity on shear strain rate. The 30 wt oil is nearly Newtonian while the 20W-50, having polymers, is a psudoplastic Non-Newtonian fluid. In this chart, above some shear rate, the 30 wt. is more viscous than the 20W-50. Take this as an example, NOT a universal trend with all straight 30 wts and all 20W-50 oils.
Newtonian fluid means the viscosity is constant as shear strain rate varies.
http://www.mt.luth.se/~rola/tribology/handouts_ehl.pdf
These slides also discuss the equally important effect of pressure on viscosity.
Here's a good HTHS thread by MolaKule: http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=525921&an=0&page=0
Newtonian fluid means the viscosity is constant as shear strain rate varies.
http://www.mt.luth.se/~rola/tribology/handouts_ehl.pdf
These slides also discuss the equally important effect of pressure on viscosity.
Here's a good HTHS thread by MolaKule: http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=525921&an=0&page=0
My opinion is that straight weight oils are viable only in engines that get lots of continuous hours... boats, aircraft, etc. Maybe long haul driving without lots of cold starts. This test only looks at bore wear. What about the rest of the engine? Truly adequate lubrication starts when the oil reaches it's operating temp, so cold (or even luke-warm) starts are going to have the potential of increased wear until the oil reaches operating temp (and viscosity). I agree with mechtech2;
"Right now, it seems to be a partial and isolated picture to me."
It's only one element in the performance elements we have to balance for the best overall performance from our lubriucants.
"Right now, it seems to be a partial and isolated picture to me."
It's only one element in the performance elements we have to balance for the best overall performance from our lubriucants.
I'm having a hard time believing that Valvoline is not using at least some VII's -- with a VI that is up around 113. Schaeffers 7000 (mixed with PAO) only has a VI of 105.
This thread is certainly interesting. I could see a straight grade Group I outperforming a multi-grade Group I, but what about against a modern Group II?
I've seen evidence suggesting that Group II's can outperform Group I's substantially when it comes to wear. This is where Group II/III oils seem to excel -- which is probably why the UOA's with conventional (Grp II) show such good wear characteristics (if one goes by the UOA's). We see modern Group II's performing as well as synthetics (and perhaps better than some PAO based motor oils like Mobil 1).
In this test (Cummins M11 see page 17) Global Base Oil Product Trends.pdf the crosshead wear on the Group II based oil was less than half that of the Group I base oil.
In this test, the EHC (Group II from Exxonmobil) had substantially less wear than the Group I (see table 10 and 11 near bottom of page) …patentstorm … …
Table 10
………………………………… … … … … Grp…. I … II
Avg. Cam + Lifter Wear, microns … 15.4 … 9 … 30 Max.
Cam + Lifter Wear, microns … ….. …74 … 20 … 64
Table 11
Avg. Cam Wear, microns…………… 83.6 … 18 … 130 max
Max. Cam Wear, microns ………….. 231 … 27 …. 380 max
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