10W-40 HDEO oil? Why not?

[Bob A.]

I'd love to have an up-to-date 10W-40 HDEO for my '95 PowerStroke DIT in the winter -- and for the summer, for that matter -- given our climate around here. It wouldn't matter to me what the format was, dino, synblend, or syn. Our annual temperature range in my community is 105-110 degrees F, e.g., 0F or 5F to 105F.

I realize that 10W-40s have been shelved (for whatever reasons) by the oil companies, but with the current technologies, the oil companies should be able to create stable oils in this viscosity range. They can do it across a broader range of viscosities than 10W-40 such as 5W-40 and 0W-40. Why can't they make a stable, tangible, 10W-40 HDEO this day and age? That is basically what 59Vetteman has created by combining Delvac 1300 Super (15W-40) with Mobil 1 Truck and SUV (5W-40) -- (or was it Delvac 1 5W-40?). His oil analysis produced something like 9ppm of iron for a fairly lengthy OCI with a Ford Powerstroke. That's excellent/outstanding for that engine.

Revisiting this viscosity range with current technologies would handle a lot of HDEO needs – I would say 65-70% of the them across most climates.

What say you Schaeffer’s, Shell and other company representatives? . . . Molekule? Terry?

Bob A.

 

[wavinwayne]

To answer the original question:

I believe that since many oil companies offer both 5w40 & 15w40 HDEO's, they figure "why bother" with a 10w40.

That's the way I see it, but I have no clue as to the real reason.

 

[The Critic]

Again, just a humble guess here.

My reasoning is that for those who need an oil for the easy starts in the winter, they would want an oil that would be able to flow the MOST rapidly during cold temps yet still be able to maintain a stable viscosity. The widest span that one can have with a multi-grade oil (HDEO or PCMO) it seems, with today's technology, is probably 35pts. Go any further and you'll experience the shearing problem present in oils such as M1 0w-40 or Esso XD3 0w-40.

To the oil companies, its probably a question of why bother with a 10w-40. A 5w-40 does everything a 10w-40 can do, for a few pennies more. A 15w-40 does the job just fine for the cheapskates or for those budget-minded folks.

Its really a question of demand as well. How many MFGs nowdays recommend a 10w-40? Most of the Euros now recommend a 5w-40, I've yet to see an owner's manual recommend 10w-40, well maybe Nissan/Infiniti, but even then, it isn't a preferred viscosity.

EDIT: Amsoil makes a 10w-40 HDEO, bottled under the "AMO" label. Its 5w-40 has a good additive pack, but isn't meant to be used as HDEO for PSDs, Duramax, etc...its meant to be used in light-duty diesels such as the TDI.

 

[Bob A.]

We all can guess. My guess is that it's a money matter. The oil companies can make more money by having two separate HDEO viscosity ranges, one for winter (5W-40) and one for summer (15W-40), with overlapping capabilities between them, spring and fall being the cusp seasons.

Money aside, I believe that a quality 10w-40 HDEO would handle all seasons well in most climates, that is, provide the engines with high quality protection across wide temperature ranges throughout the seasons.

5W-40s are close to that now. Ultimately, this viscosity range may become the HDEO "standard", much like the 5W-30 is for regular motor oils. However, 10w-40s would be easier to create and stabilize because the range is 30 viscosity points instead of 35 as for the 5W-40 oils -- or 40 points for the 0W-40s -- and the 10W-40s would handle most climatic scenarios.

Again, I wish there were quality 10W-40 HDEOs in my area. Interestingly enough, I have stashed Delvac 1300 Super and Mobil 1 T&SUV to combine for the poor man's synblend, 10W-40 for my '95 Powerstroke DIT -- as soon as my current OCI of 15W-40 is completed (1,000 more miles to go).

Again, I ask, what say you Schaeffer's, Shell and other oil company reps.? Molecule? Terry?

Michael, I may have to look into the AMSOIL 10W-40 HDEO. I think AMSOIL may have the answer I'm looking for (except maybe for the expense).

Bob A.

 

[The Critic]

Well, as you mentioned, a 10w-40 HDEO can handle all seasons well in most climates. But so can a well-blended 5w-40; it does everything that a 10w-40 can do yet still provide better flow in sub-zero temperatures, which one can easily see why its preferred over a 10w-40. Add its "common-ness" in the Euro market and that makes it a complete winner.

Its funny how one would say that 10w-40s are easier to create (I agree), but for some reason, the 10w-40s you see rarely stay in grade. I guess that they must be using thicker, higher quality basestocks in the 5w-40s.

After all, as I'd say...who cares if its difficult to blend...you aren't blending it anyway.

As long as it does the job, one (I) can care less.

 

[Bob A.]

Michael, I think you are right. I think the oil companies must be using better grades of base oils now for the 5W-40s than they did for the 10W-40s. Otherwise, there wouldn't have been a need to replace the 10W-40s. If I were to choose two viscosity ranges, I would choose 10W-40 and 0W-40.

Just the opinion of a non-professional (but a very persnickity consumer!

).

Bob A.

 

[Hammer]

quote:

---

I'd love to have an up-to-date 10W-40 HDEO for my '95 PowerStroke DIT in the winter -- and for the summer, for that matter -- given our climate around here. It wouldn't matter to me what the format was, dino, synblend, or syn. Our annual temperature range in my community is 105-110 degrees F, e.g., 0F or 5F to 105F.

I realize that 10W-40s have been shelved (for whatever reasons) by the oil companies, but with the current technologies, the oil companies should be able to create stable oils in this viscosity range. They can do it across a broader range of viscosities than 10W-40 such as 5W-40 and 0W-40. Why can't they make a stable, tangible, 10W-40 HDEO this day and age? That is basically what 59Vetteman has created by combining Delvac 1300 Super (15W-40) with Mobil 1 Truck and SUV (5W-40) -- (or was it Delvac 1 5W-40?). His oil analysis produced something like 9ppm of iron for a fairly lengthy OCI with a Ford Powerstroke. That's excellent/outstanding for that engine.

Revisiting this viscosity range with current technologies would handle a lot of HDEO needs – I would say 65-70% of the them across most climates.

What say you Schaeffer’s, Shell and other company representatives? . . . Molekule? Terry?

Bob A.

---

Actually there IS a really great one out there. It's called Schaeffer's 7000 15w-40

Now you say, "W.T.F are you talking about?"

Well, according to "Salesrep", the true cold viscosity of Schaeffer's 7000 15w-40 is actually a 10w-40 grade, BUT Schaeffer's markets the oil as a 15w-40 because that is the viscosity that most people expect in a mainstream HDEO. Plus, many people have the idea that 10w-40 is bad oil because of "old school dino" 10w-40 having a ton of VII's to support the viscosity spread. Since Schaeffer's 7000 is 30% PAO & 70% group II, it doesn't need a ton of VII's and therefore performs excellent.

So in a nutshell, you can mix a blend of 5w-40 & 15w-40 from other brand names, or you can buy Schaeffer's 7000 and already have an oil that does the job.

Hammer

[ December 19, 2005, 02:40 AM: Message edited by: Hammer ]

 

[Bob A.]

Great, Hammer! Thanks! When I'm done using the Mobil oils I've bought on sale, stashed, and am going to be blending, I'll switch to the Schaeffer's 7000 "15W"-40 for my year-'round oil.

"Now, . . . that's what I'm talkin' about!"

Bob A.

 

[Shannow]

Mobil have a number of 10W-40s down under.

I think they contain a fair amount of GRIII, as they have lower pour points, and refer to XHVI base oils.

 

[tdi-rick]

As Shannow says, Mobil have one here called Delvac MX Extra 10W-40, which is marketed as a synthetic blend HDEO.

 

[Dick in Falls Church]

Insist on a 10W-40? Try AMSOIL AMO, which is rated for both diesel and gas.

 

[Bob A.]

It seems that it is prudent to look at the PDS details for oils and accurately interpret their viscosity info. It is likely that information is very revealing. For example, I assume the AMSOIL AMO viscosity PDS details might closely resemble those of Schaeffer's 7000 15W-40 (mentioned above by Hammer).

I think I'll see if I can find that information for both of these oils and compare.

 

[snoboy]

I have used Amsoil AMO 10w40 in my 6.0 diesel. It is a fully diesel rated CI4+ oil.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All items of zero are not listed. Sample taken from Fumoto drain. Filters used: Airaid air filter, Amsoil BMK-100 BP, Luberfiner FF. Who says these Airaids dont work?
Al 3
Chr 1
Iron 14
Copper 3
Lead 5
Tin 1
Moly 12 left over from last fill, Schaeffer's
Nickel 1
Potas. 3
Boron 1
Silicon 7
Sodium 1
Calcium 3292
Mag. 7
Phos. 993
Zinc 1090
SUS vis@ 64.1
Flash 425
Fuel Insol. 0.4
TBN 11.2
The oil was in for 6 mo. and 6000mi. I have installed Rotella T syn 5w40 so we'll see how it does. My metals are slightly elevated and judging by my Si. numbers its not from dirt ingestion. I think its just the wrong oil. After this run of Rotella I'm going to try the Amsoil ACD 10w-30. Even at .4 my insolubles aren't bad considering my bypass wasn't flowing oil when I went to pull my sample.
Comments

 

[Silk]

I use Fuchs Titan Ultra MC 10/40,in all my diesels,they say it can be used with extended drain intervals of up to 80,000km...sounds good enough for me.

 

[Bob A.]

Fuchs pretty much has an eastern USA distribution. I live in the P.N.W. I think my best bets are AMSOIL and Schaeffers. We have reps. from both companies here in town.

However, first I am going to mix the Delvac 1300 Super (15W-40) with Mobil T&SUV (5W-40) and make my own 10W-40 -- with some Lube Control mixed in. 59Vetteman had an excellent UOA of this mix (plus Molakule's SX-UP) with a '95 PowerStroke not long ago.

For me, that concoction will cost me $2.80 (US) per qt. (for a "synblend") because I bought three cases of Delvac 1300 Super at $1.16/qt, on sale, and Mobil's T&SUV was $4.00/qt. at Walmart. The "blended" price, including state sales tax, beats Schaeffer's by $1.11/qt. (including shipping and state sales tax). I don't know about AMSOIL yet, but my guess is that AMSOIL's price for their 10W-40 HDEO is higher than Schaeffer's.

Since I have a 14 qt. sump, this blending effort is worth a try. The difference is $15.54 for the oil change. If the homebrew synblend works well, over time that's a lot of money.

 

[Ryan00TJ]

Correct me if I am wrong but I think Mobil's Delvac 1300S also barely meets the 10W crank specs but is still labeled a 15W-40.

 

[Pablo]

I can't speak for Delvac, but Amsoil 15W-40 flows pretty well when cold, like a 10W.

Amsoil 10W-40 really is NOT a HDEO. Sure it meets the diesel specs, but IMHO I don't recommend it for diesels. It worked OK in the Duramax due to sump size, but the oil is old tech, plain and simple.

I say bag the AMO 10W-40 recommendation. In Yakima, Amsoil 15W-40 will work fine as will ACD 10W-30.

 

[Norm Olt]

Pablo: I guess I don't understand how an oil that meets CH-4 diesel specs is not an HDEO. I most certainly defer to your recommendation vis-a-vis AME (and the HDD product, I would assume?) being more cutting edge diesel-desireable, but...

saying "...really is NOT a HDEO" seems, somehow contradictory?

 

[Pablo]

Unless Amsoil has changed the formulation in the last six months the oil is not as great as the other diesel oils from Amsoil. It's a dual rated oil to be sure, it's performance in gas engines is uninspiring and I don't have a ton of documentation on it's performance in diesels - hence my weasel worded "recommendation"

Well it passes, and it will work, but the base oil is just not as robust as HDD, ACD , AME (nor the add pack)

 

[drums57]

MYSTIK JT-8 10w40 super heavy duty motor oil exceeds API CI-4 PLUS and API SL , and unlike some of the weasel oils out their it has the API service donut. That means it is fully certified and has passed all the API requirments for CI-4 PLUS and API SL.