wemay
Site Donor 2023
Owners Manual advises both 5w and 10w30 are thumbs-up. My question is, knowing there is a benefit to 5w30 in the colder regions. What, if any, is the benefit to using a 10w30, other than the lower price i often see.
10w-30, any benefit(s)?
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The advantage would be a very hard running engine at higher temperatures. the 10-30 has less VIIs, so it would not shear as easily in those extreme conditions. Other than that, no.
Not much. Some would argue that a 10w30 is less likely to shear out of grade but I think modern 5w30s are getting enough R&D to negate that for a passenger vehicle. Some modern 5w30s require no viscosity index improvers at all.
Originally Posted By: wemay
Owners Manual advises both 5w and 10w30 are thumbs-up. My question is, knowing there is a benefit to 5w30 in the colder regions. What, if any, is the benefit to using a 10w30, other than the lower price i often see.
No advantage. And if you don't have a warranty to worry about, I'd use 0w30.
Owners Manual advises both 5w and 10w30 are thumbs-up. My question is, knowing there is a benefit to 5w30 in the colder regions. What, if any, is the benefit to using a 10w30, other than the lower price i often see.
No advantage. And if you don't have a warranty to worry about, I'd use 0w30.
I see a good 5w30 as King of weights for most PCMOs today
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Thank you all.
Conventional 10W30 of 15-20 years ago was more shear stable than 5W30, that why Honda recommended 10W30 in the S2000 from model year 2000 to 2009 in warmer climate. In colder climate they recommend 5W40 which is synthetic only.
Modern conventional 5W30 is almost as shear stable as 10W30, so for most engines 5W30 is suitable, except may be Honda S2000. But I think synthetic 10W30 is obsoleted.
Modern conventional 5W30 is almost as shear stable as 10W30, so for most engines 5W30 is suitable, except may be Honda S2000. But I think synthetic 10W30 is obsoleted.
10W-30 is more durable than 5w30. Most owners manuals will suggest using 5w30 only below zero F.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
10W-30 is more durable than 5w30. Most owners manuals will suggest using 5w30 only below zero F.
Maybe 20 years ago, but not now. The vast majority of OMs don't even list 10w30 nowadays.
10W-30 is more durable than 5w30. Most owners manuals will suggest using 5w30 only below zero F.
Maybe 20 years ago, but not now. The vast majority of OMs don't even list 10w30 nowadays.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
10W-30 is more durable than 5w30. Most OLDER manuals will suggest using 5w30 only below zero F.
Fixed it for you-but, I've seen a few newer vehicles that say 10W30 is OK (brother's '02 Altima for example).
10W-30 is more durable than 5w30. Most OLDER manuals will suggest using 5w30 only below zero F.
Fixed it for you-but, I've seen a few newer vehicles that say 10W30 is OK (brother's '02 Altima for example).
Our 2012 KIA still lists 10w30 as acceptable and within warranty requirements.
Most 5w30's still use a lot more VII's than its counterpart 10w30. Despite all the talk about how good today's 5w30's are (and they are much better) my venerable Jeep 4.0 will still chew one down to a high 20 grade before 3k.
Good 'ol 10w30 is far more useful than its made out to be on here. But I still run 5w30 in most of our vehicles year round, the Jeep only when its the cold months.
Most 5w30's still use a lot more VII's than its counterpart 10w30. Despite all the talk about how good today's 5w30's are (and they are much better) my venerable Jeep 4.0 will still chew one down to a high 20 grade before 3k.
Good 'ol 10w30 is far more useful than its made out to be on here. But I still run 5w30 in most of our vehicles year round, the Jeep only when its the cold months.
I'm sure most cars could run forever on 10w-30 but since all oils are too thick at start up at any outside temperature I just use 0w-30 now.
Ah, another troll thread.
I'll take the bait-
10w30 of the synthetic variety is what I like. Conventional 10w30 may really have no use aside from being a cleaner running oil in areas that cold weather is not an issue.
But synthetic 10w30 has real advantages over an equally blended higher spread 30 grade, namely volatility and less polymeric 'adulterants' (VII/PPD) logically resulting in less deposits/varnishing and quite easily less carbon buildup.
To reiterate the bloody horse corpse point of "oh but today's oil technology is much better". Well, sure it is. But the problems are just being worked more and more "outside" of the operating range, however they still exist. One incident of overheating will make this apparent, or consistent overheating of the oil (bulk or localised) will also make this apparently, perhaps only on the next teardown. Most people won't have any apparent issues (as observed by them) with 5w30- but that doesn't make it equal in cleanliness or stay in grade performance. How could one tell a shade darker varnishing over 100K using 5w30 over 10 or 1 more milligram of charred VII crust on their DI intake valve or one more milligram of crust around the ringpack? 99% of people will never notice that.
In Florida or a similar climate, I don't need that risk. I don't need acceptable 5W CCS ranges in exchange for higher dropout/varnish/shear potential over a cleaner, synthetic "base only" 10w30.
Imagining that tossing R&D money into a product makes us believe that we suddenly know the nature of research (we assume their priorities are ours) and that progress as we imagine it is guaranteed to happen once we imagine that enough money is being thrown at it. That's just how we are- we equate spenditures with progress.
What I'd like to point out is that, while R&D is going into producing a VMed product that suffers less and less of the apparent common issues (vis dropout, deposits, permanent shear, varnish) in an economically viable manner for one of the most produced grades of oil, the technology is roughly the same- polymeric VMs remain the cheapest solution, and the solution of choice. VMs are evolving,yes, but still suffer their drawbacks. The technology exists to make an incredible 5w30 that can outperform any 10w30 on the market-- R&D is not trying to create that product, it's trying to create it within a price point. 5w30 is still the lowest grade and widest spread that manufacturers are willing to recommend for their turbo engines to date- many without even specifying mineral or synthetic. Some manufacturers have to MANDATE at least some level of synthetic formulation on their 5w30s- so of course the oil blenders have been scrambling. If 30's all you need for HO engines, and spread gets you more favourable FE during warm up, then why not 0w30? What's that? 0w30 GrIII blends can't perform sufficiently? Stable 0w30 true synthetic formulas cost too much to make on a 5w30 volume scale? well then
tl;dr synthetic 10w30 for me in a hot climate, preferably one made with outstanding base stocks like GTL that have UNMATCHED volatility. I wonder how volatility correlates to the actual molecular composition of the oil...
I'll take the bait-
10w30 of the synthetic variety is what I like. Conventional 10w30 may really have no use aside from being a cleaner running oil in areas that cold weather is not an issue.
But synthetic 10w30 has real advantages over an equally blended higher spread 30 grade, namely volatility and less polymeric 'adulterants' (VII/PPD) logically resulting in less deposits/varnishing and quite easily less carbon buildup.
To reiterate the bloody horse corpse point of "oh but today's oil technology is much better". Well, sure it is. But the problems are just being worked more and more "outside" of the operating range, however they still exist. One incident of overheating will make this apparent, or consistent overheating of the oil (bulk or localised) will also make this apparently, perhaps only on the next teardown. Most people won't have any apparent issues (as observed by them) with 5w30- but that doesn't make it equal in cleanliness or stay in grade performance. How could one tell a shade darker varnishing over 100K using 5w30 over 10 or 1 more milligram of charred VII crust on their DI intake valve or one more milligram of crust around the ringpack? 99% of people will never notice that.
In Florida or a similar climate, I don't need that risk. I don't need acceptable 5W CCS ranges in exchange for higher dropout/varnish/shear potential over a cleaner, synthetic "base only" 10w30.
Imagining that tossing R&D money into a product makes us believe that we suddenly know the nature of research (we assume their priorities are ours) and that progress as we imagine it is guaranteed to happen once we imagine that enough money is being thrown at it. That's just how we are- we equate spenditures with progress.
What I'd like to point out is that, while R&D is going into producing a VMed product that suffers less and less of the apparent common issues (vis dropout, deposits, permanent shear, varnish) in an economically viable manner for one of the most produced grades of oil, the technology is roughly the same- polymeric VMs remain the cheapest solution, and the solution of choice. VMs are evolving,yes, but still suffer their drawbacks. The technology exists to make an incredible 5w30 that can outperform any 10w30 on the market-- R&D is not trying to create that product, it's trying to create it within a price point. 5w30 is still the lowest grade and widest spread that manufacturers are willing to recommend for their turbo engines to date- many without even specifying mineral or synthetic. Some manufacturers have to MANDATE at least some level of synthetic formulation on their 5w30s- so of course the oil blenders have been scrambling. If 30's all you need for HO engines, and spread gets you more favourable FE during warm up, then why not 0w30? What's that? 0w30 GrIII blends can't perform sufficiently? Stable 0w30 true synthetic formulas cost too much to make on a 5w30 volume scale? well then
tl;dr synthetic 10w30 for me in a hot climate, preferably one made with outstanding base stocks like GTL that have UNMATCHED volatility. I wonder how volatility correlates to the actual molecular composition of the oil...
Originally Posted By: Klutch9
No advantage. And if you don't have a warranty to worry about, I'd use 0w30.
In South Florida? Ridiculous. It's tropical there. ..... Toyota advises not to use 0W-20 or 0W-30 in the original Prius (only 5W-xx grades), and it appears the Original poster's carmaker is the same. They only recommend 5W or 10W-30.
The advantage of 10w-30 is more oil and less viscosity additives (which don't lubricate but can turn to varnish).
No advantage. And if you don't have a warranty to worry about, I'd use 0w30.
In South Florida? Ridiculous. It's tropical there. ..... Toyota advises not to use 0W-20 or 0W-30 in the original Prius (only 5W-xx grades), and it appears the Original poster's carmaker is the same. They only recommend 5W or 10W-30.
The advantage of 10w-30 is more oil and less viscosity additives (which don't lubricate but can turn to varnish).
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Originally Posted By: Klutch9
No advantage. And if you don't have a warranty to worry about, I'd use 0w30.
In South Florida? Ridiculous. It's tropical there. ..... Toyota advises not to use 0W-20 or 0W-30 in the original Prius (only 5W-xx grades), and it appears the Original poster's carmaker is the same. They only recommend 5W or 10W-30.
The advantage of 10w-30 is more oil and less viscosity additives (which don't lubricate but can turn to varnish).
Toyota doesn't advise not to use 0W-30, they just don't offer it; get your facts straight.
They do advise the 5W-20 which is lighter than a 0W-30 grade, they just haven't back spec'd the 0W-20 grade probably for oil consumption reasons.
Regarding the 10W-30 grade, there is no guarantee that it contains less vanish producing additive than a 0W/5w30 and more often than not, since it is a cheaply made oil it may contain more.
The only advantage of the obsolete 10W-30 grade is that it usually can be picked up very cheaply. And in a hot climate the disadvantages of the grade are largely mitigated.
Originally Posted By: Klutch9
No advantage. And if you don't have a warranty to worry about, I'd use 0w30.
In South Florida? Ridiculous. It's tropical there. ..... Toyota advises not to use 0W-20 or 0W-30 in the original Prius (only 5W-xx grades), and it appears the Original poster's carmaker is the same. They only recommend 5W or 10W-30.
The advantage of 10w-30 is more oil and less viscosity additives (which don't lubricate but can turn to varnish).
Toyota doesn't advise not to use 0W-30, they just don't offer it; get your facts straight.
They do advise the 5W-20 which is lighter than a 0W-30 grade, they just haven't back spec'd the 0W-20 grade probably for oil consumption reasons.
Regarding the 10W-30 grade, there is no guarantee that it contains less vanish producing additive than a 0W/5w30 and more often than not, since it is a cheaply made oil it may contain more.
The only advantage of the obsolete 10W-30 grade is that it usually can be picked up very cheaply. And in a hot climate the disadvantages of the grade are largely mitigated.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
I thank everyone for their input,
I ask because I bought 50 qts of 10W30 (10 Kendall GT-1, 25 Durablend,15 conv Nextgen) at various Autozones this week for a $1/quart. Couldnt pass it up their clearance price.
I ask because I bought 50 qts of 10W30 (10 Kendall GT-1, 25 Durablend,15 conv Nextgen) at various Autozones this week for a $1/quart. Couldnt pass it up their clearance price.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Toyota doesn't advise not to use 0W-30, they just don't offer it; get your facts straight.
I have my facts straight. This chart *published by Toyota* very clearly states the original Prius (2001-03) should only run 5W-xx grades. No 0W grades (no green circle).
Back to the original topic: I definitely wouldn't run 0w-30 in south Florida. You don't need it, and because it has more viscosity modifying additives, might actually be worse for your car. Stick to what the manufacturer recommends (5w or 10w-30). I would go with the 10w especially in the spring, summer, fall.
Toyota doesn't advise not to use 0W-30, they just don't offer it; get your facts straight.
I have my facts straight. This chart *published by Toyota* very clearly states the original Prius (2001-03) should only run 5W-xx grades. No 0W grades (no green circle).
Back to the original topic: I definitely wouldn't run 0w-30 in south Florida. You don't need it, and because it has more viscosity modifying additives, might actually be worse for your car. Stick to what the manufacturer recommends (5w or 10w-30). I would go with the 10w especially in the spring, summer, fall.
Originally Posted By: wemay
I thank everyone for their input,
I ask because I bought 50 qts of 10W30 (10 Kendall GT-1, 25 Durablend,15 conv Nextgen) at various Autozones this week for a $1/quart. Couldnt pass it up their clearance price.
Wow sweet deal, esp that Kendall GT-1!!
I thank everyone for their input,
I ask because I bought 50 qts of 10W30 (10 Kendall GT-1, 25 Durablend,15 conv Nextgen) at various Autozones this week for a $1/quart. Couldnt pass it up their clearance price.
Wow sweet deal, esp that Kendall GT-1!!
Within reason, I wouldn't worry so much. Mobil endorses their 0w-30 for 5w30 and 10w-30 applications and their 0w-20 for 5w-20 applications. And, as far as 30 grades go, something like GC 0w-30 or Mobil Delvac Elite 222 0w-30 certainly would not be too thin for anything specifying a 30 of some sort.
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