10R80 / Lubegard Platinum / Mercon ULV

ctechbob said:
I keep looking at the Ford Factory performance tune. Done by Livernois and while it isn't the greatest tune out there, it does give you a 45hp 60lb/ft bump, which isn't nothing. Then I remember that the truck works so well now that I'm hesitant to mess with it.
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45&60 would be very noticeable. Once you get a good tune you will be shocked how lame the factory tuning is.

My 19 F150 5.0 is a blast to drive on E85. In sport mode it revs out to 7k. I flashed back to stock and ran 87 octane for a road trip and the difference is incredible.
 
2013ecof150 said:
45&60 would be very noticeable. Once you get a good tune you will be shocked how lame the factory tuning is.

My 19 F150 5.0 is a blast to drive on E85. In sport mode it revs out to 7k. I flashed back to stock and ran 87 octane for a road trip and the difference is incredible.
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Even the difference between 87 and 93 is pretty noticeable in the little 2.3. I did a camper trip on 87 this past spring and when we got back the truck felt sooo flat from having the timing retarded so far while under the load of that trailer that even when we unhitched the thing felt terrible. These days I make sure to hit it with a tank of 93 before I top up and leave with the trailer.
 
Bob, would that also include trans tuning?
The 10r140 in my F450 was tuned, that way it would hold a downshift on a decent when I got off the brake in Tow haul. Worth every penny. Was exactly what I was wanting
Now, tuning it, locking the converter earlier, a slight increase in line pressure, what will that do to the longevity of the 10R? I have no idea.
 
21_6.7f450 said:
Bob, would that also include trans tuning?
The 10r140 in my F450 was tuned, that way it would hold a downshift on a decent when I got off the brake in Tow haul. Worth every penny. Was exactly what I was wanting
Now, tuning it, locking the converter earlier, a slight increase in line pressure, what will that do to the longevity of the 10R? I have no idea.
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Supposedly the Ford Performance tune does include new mapping for the trans as well.

Not sure what changes, but people have said it is a pretty nice difference on that front as well. As far as longevity, no clue.

FWIW, we just got back from a trip to the Blue Ridge Mountains. HOT today on the way back. 96 outside temps, Truck ran a little over 200 the whole way, trans stayed between 199 and 216.
 
I’ve got about the same theory, having studied what I can about the CDF failure, though certainly I’ve been told I’m wrong.

I think that the CDF failure is due to a weakness in the CDF drum, exacerbated by shift slams from errant valve body activity. If you look at the misaligned CDF drums, there is usually physical galling, metal on metal contact. I suspect that the pressures which force that binding into play, are then added onto drum stress from the binding itself - and the two work together to walk and twist the drum apart, which mis-aligns the fluid passages. Passage misalignment doesn’t get undone. The more it happens, the more permanent the failure becomes.

Case in point - my 10r80 was a real problem at 18k. Dealer wasn’t going to help, but I got it on record. Tried fluid changes… ended up with a partial mix of 1:4 amsoil:Mercon, plus lubeguard red at 1/4 dose. It then became nearly flawless and held together for 40,000 miles with almost no change in behavior until just recently. I refreshed the fluids (same ratio) and the LG. It is slightly worse than it was, nothing like it was at 18k. Whatever I did has slowed the rate of decay. And that’s why I think the two issues play off each other.

Other variable - loading. We towed with the truck a lot, early in its life. Rarely now, so another factor there is it was degrading higher when we towed with it.

I plan to keep the 1:4 ratio of the thicker amsoil fluid in there. The thicker fluid detracts ever so slightly with shift timing. However, thanks to learning of the CDF issue from this forum, I believe the amsoil additive pack and slight increase in viscosity should reduce bushing contact and galling, while the LG seems to prevent the VB from sticking during the upshift from 3rd, hopefully preserving the integrity of the CDF drum, or at least stretching it out a few more years.
 
I'm taking the 5.0 back in to the dealer tomorrow due to the couple "bumps" that happen when going from P to R. Also, when going from R to D, there is a delay of going into gear. The valve body was replaced a couple months ago. I've since learned that there is a new CDF cylinder with new part# that Ford put out that has a lip which is supposed to deal with the problem, hopefully.
 
Toy4x4 said:
I'm taking the 5.0 back in to the dealer tomorrow due to the couple "bumps" that happen when going from P to R. Also, when going from R to D, there is a delay of going into gear. The valve body was replaced a couple months ago. I've since learned that there is a new CDF cylinder with new part# that Ford put out that has a lip which is supposed to deal with the problem, hopefully.
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It is a whole new drum that goes in the trans. They usually just replace the whole unit instead of tearing into it and replacing it.

Better description of the whole CDF thing. Same thing applies to our 10R80's.
https://gearsmagazine.com/magazine/a-10r140-with-a-slip-on-the-go/


1719887571839.jpg
 
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meep said:
I’ve got about the same theory, having studied what I can about the CDF failure, though certainly I’ve been told I’m wrong.

I think that the CDF failure is due to a weakness in the CDF drum, exacerbated by shift slams from errant valve body activity. If you look at the misaligned CDF drums, there is usually physical galling, metal on metal contact. I suspect that the pressures which force that binding into play, are then added onto drum stress from the binding itself - and the two work together to walk and twist the drum apart, which mis-aligns the fluid passages. Passage misalignment doesn’t get undone. The more it happens, the more permanent the failure becomes.

Case in point - my 10r80 was a real problem at 18k. Dealer wasn’t going to help, but I got it on record. Tried fluid changes… ended up with a partial mix of 1:4 amsoil:Mercon, plus lubeguard red at 1/4 dose. It then became nearly flawless and held together for 40,000 miles with almost no change in behavior until just recently. I refreshed the fluids (same ratio) and the LG. It is slightly worse than it was, nothing like it was at 18k. Whatever I did has slowed the rate of decay. And that’s why I think the two issues play off each other.

Other variable - loading. We towed with the truck a lot, early in its life. Rarely now, so another factor there is it was degrading higher when we towed with it.

I plan to keep the 1:4 ratio of the thicker amsoil fluid in there. The thicker fluid detracts ever so slightly with shift timing. However, thanks to learning of the CDF issue from this forum, I believe the amsoil additive pack and slight increase in viscosity should reduce bushing contact and galling, while the LG seems to prevent the VB from sticking during the upshift from 3rd, hopefully preserving the integrity of the CDF drum, or at least stretching it out a few more years.
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I want to see more evidence of the ring lands contacting the CDF Drum Sleeve, As that would point to accelerated bushing wear.
 
clinebarger said:
I want to see more evidence of the ring lands contacting the CDF Drum Sleeve, As that would point to accelerated bushing wear.
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I've never seen a picture of a chewed up bushing, just ones that have drifted in the bore. I'd be interested in that too. All of the ones I've seen look like the pic I posted above where you can see the marks where the sealing rings contacted the bushing, but no wear.
 
meep said:
I’ve got about the same theory, having studied what I can about the CDF failure, though certainly I’ve been told I’m wrong.

I think that the CDF failure is due to a weakness in the CDF drum, exacerbated by shift slams from errant valve body activity. If you look at the misaligned CDF drums, there is usually physical galling, metal on metal contact. I suspect that the pressures which force that binding into play, are then added onto drum stress from the binding itself - and the two work together to walk and twist the drum apart, which mis-aligns the fluid passages. Passage misalignment doesn’t get undone. The more it happens, the more permanent the failure becomes.

Case in point - my 10r80 was a real problem at 18k. Dealer wasn’t going to help, but I got it on record. Tried fluid changes… ended up with a partial mix of 1:4 amsoil:Mercon, plus lubeguard red at 1/4 dose. It then became nearly flawless and held together for 40,000 miles with almost no change in behavior until just recently. I refreshed the fluids (same ratio) and the LG. It is slightly worse than it was, nothing like it was at 18k. Whatever I did has slowed the rate of decay. And that’s why I think the two issues play off each other.

Other variable - loading. We towed with the truck a lot, early in its life. Rarely now, so another factor there is it was degrading higher when we towed with it.

I plan to keep the 1:4 ratio of the thicker amsoil fluid in there. The thicker fluid detracts ever so slightly with shift timing. However, thanks to learning of the CDF issue from this forum, I believe the amsoil additive pack and slight increase in viscosity should reduce bushing contact and galling, while the LG seems to prevent the VB from sticking during the upshift from 3rd, hopefully preserving the integrity of the CDF drum, or at least stretching it out a few more years.
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You had shift issues when you did a drain and fill with straight Amsoil LV a while back, correct ?

I did a drain and fill on mine last weekend with Amsoil atf and lubegard. Seems a bit smoother overall.

I wonder what the actual failure rate is for the cdf drum bushing issues considering how many of them are out there ?
 
Good question. .
It can't be terribly high. I've talked to a bunch of folks who are very happy with their 10r. I'd wager most are, just like anything you hear the bad on the internet.
 
CKN said:
No-some dealers simply send the until to a local rebuilder-simply because of the rate of failures there are not enough replacements.
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Edit - I was incorrect

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2023/MC-10236680-0001.pdf

Although it does contain this language:

CDF Clutch Cylinder Replacement

NOTE: For Mexico, USA and Canadian vehicles less than 3 years old and has less than 36,000 miles (60,000 km) the dealer has the option to continue with this TSB repair or replace the transmission under the low time in service (LTIS) policy.
 
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ctechbob said:
Edit - I was incorrect

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2023/MC-10236680-0001.pdf

Although it does contain this language:

CDF Clutch Cylinder Replacement

NOTE: For Mexico, USA and Canadian vehicles less than 3 years old and has less than 36,000 miles (60,000 km) the dealer has the option to continue with this TSB repair or replace the transmission under the low time in service (LTIS) policy.
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Also-there are Ford authorized rebuilders.
 
2013ecof150 said:
You had shift issues when you did a drain and fill with straight Amsoil LV a while back, correct ?

I did a drain and fill on mine last weekend with Amsoil atf and lubegard. Seems a bit smoother overall.

I wonder what the actual failure rate is for the cdf drum bushing issues considering how many of them are out there ?
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Yes. I’ve done a lot with mine since the dealer was no help (18,500 miles if I recall) and I was willing to experiment. At worse it was gonna fail anyway.

1. 2 D/F to amsoil. After 3 days, shift timing was really poor, and 3rd upshift was just as bad.

2. 1 D/F with ULV. Hoping to reduce concentration of amsoil. Shift timing almost back to stock, much better. Still awful 3rd upshift.

3. Very small lubeguard dose, significant improvement, almost like new, remarkable. Added a touch more, minimal difference, let it be.

4. 45k miles later (65k), it got clumsy. Not sure why. Reset the adaptives, figured a D/F needed soon.

5. 1 drain fill with equally small dose of LG. Used 2/3 ULV and 1/3 amsoil. It is not as good as it was at #3, and sometimes bangs around a little more. It’s not awful. Most probably wouldn’t notice. But I know it’s not improving. It’s also been shifting 1-2-3-4 more often, which is unusual for it.

When this transmission is behaving, however, it is remarkable and was just as smooth as our Lexus GS.
 
I think that's part of the problem. The transmission NEEDS a 25k mile service in order to behave. Mixing LV and ULV was NOT good. The LV is much thicker and can mess with shift timing and firmness. The trans, valve bodies (2) pump, bushings and clutches were designed for ulv for timing/shift predictability. Maybe a few drops of Lube Guard. I've never used the stuff..but just say no to anyone saying LV is good in the 10r. Anyone who says otherwise is just clowning you.
 
I currently have a mix of Amsoil LV and Mercon ULV and it seems perfectly fine. I wish I had access to a heated flush machine, I would have done a full exchange to the Amsoil to see if there was any difference in operation, good or bad.

I really wonder if the transmission “ requires” ULV or if it’s just for fuel economy, like when Ford switched from using 75w140 for decades to 75w85 back in 2015.
 
2013ecof150 said:
I currently have a mix of Amsoil LV and Mercon ULV and it seems perfectly fine. I wish I had access to a heated flush machine, I would have done a full exchange to the Amsoil to see if there was any difference in operation, good or bad.

I really wonder if the transmission “ requires” ULV or if it’s just for fuel economy, like when Ford switched from using 75w140 for decades to 75w85 back in 2015.
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As far as gear oil goes - thinner gear oil runs cooler.
 
Interesting thread. I have one in my 23 Mustang and was not up on the transmission when I bought it. Now at 13k seems to be working fine other than the rare odd shift. Seems reasonable with 10 gears to pick from.

In my commute and around town driving temps are running 140 to 170 if the factory temperature guage is to be believed. Apparently my car has a modest stock trans cooler, not sure if they all do or not. I have not checked temps when beating on it yet.

Sounds like short dealer trans services are a good idea. I did see on line Valvoline IOC won’t touch them. 😱
 
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