$10k for a 240v outlet install?

[alarmguy]

Not required, I looked it up, see edit to my post above.

Good post, thanks,

If you notice the photos the panel does have something new to me. The bedroom, LR, office breakers are "arc" protectors required by what I am told by an electrician at my house some time ago doing warranty work.
I know what they do and I am sure they must be required because no way would a builder voluntarily install them *LOL*
So pretty much, it seems almost anything not on a GFCI has "arc" protection.

The GFCI's installed in our community are higher end ones used for outdoor installs too because according to the electrician they got a great price on them and decided to use them inside and out to keep things simple. That was my intial warranty call to them, as there is a slight red flash every minute or so. They were even thrown off at first and then someone who knew what he was talking about gave me the model and reason. I did look it up myself. GFCIs are required to self test but these actually indicate when they test with the red flash.

 

[brianl703]

Good post, thanks,

If you notice the photos the panel does have something new to me. The bedroom, LR, office breakers are "arc" protectors required by what I am told by an electrician at my house some time ago doing warranty work.
I know what they do and I am sure they must be required because no way would a builder voluntarily install them *LOL*
So pretty much, it seems almost anything not on a GFCI has "arc" protection.

AFCI has been a requirement for a while now. Virginia amended the 2014 NEC to omit the requirement that they be installed on circuits outside of bedrooms. I believe they removed that amendment when they adopted the 2017 NEC, if not before.

 

[thastinger]

Yeah that’s what I’m wondering here…

I’m not guaranteeing it needs to e done in this circumstance…

However a new service line that has to be trenched and laid down and covered back and if it is a decent distance…. That’s not going to be cheap.

My friend Scott and I did a new water main line for a rich guy in Newport News… And that line was almost 400 feet long… It was quite a bit of money to do all of that work. Mind you that guy has $ 75, 000, 000 in a bank account and a former Playboy playmate as a wife… She was stunningly beautiful and was very nice too. Scott told me about his money and her after I met her outside the house… That explained why he could afford that new water line.. and afford her too…

Scott's Tractor Service?

When Dominion installed my new 400A service on our new construction, they didn't dig a trench, they had a machine that went into the ground and vibrated to cut any roots etc and pulled the cable at the same time, you couldn't even tell it had been done when they left and they ran it about 250ft.

 

[andrew_j]

So their break even point is over 20 years? I'd sign them up for a math class and economics course at the local community college.

If don’t think they thought much of the economics at all except getting a high MPG SUV as they drive 30k miles/year. The EV part was because the option was slightly less than a hybrid with a $7500 tax credit and $1850 MA state EV tax credit.

 

[PandaBear]

This electrical upgrade cost reminds me of how my AC installation went back then. My 94 house has a 75A panel I think, and it is insufficient to power a 3 ton AC. There is an outside "breaker" that follows with an inside breaker panel so my AC guy run a conduit from the outside "breaker" to a switch with pull out fuse, that power the AC, compeletly bypass the inside panel. I don't think he did any permit but it gets the job done.

Maybe if he can have 2 110V outlets next to the EV with different phase, he could create a 220V 12A outlet that charges slower than L2 but still twice as fast as L1, good enough for his need, and everything "follows code".

 

[PandaBear]

So true.

I would attempt a panel replacement if that’s all it is. Assuming you could pull the meter from the base and make the equipment totally dead, it would be ok.

The nuance is the need to upgrade the service entrance cable to something with higher ampacity. Doing that interacts with an unprotected cable coming from the grid. That’s not something to risk in diy imo. Especially while up on a ladder.

Then the question of necessity comes up. Is a higher entry cable actually necessary? Or is the upgraded panel being done to get more breaker spots?

You can call your utility to cancel your account or disconnect, work on your panel, then call them to reconnect. I don't think they charge that and if so not much. No need to pull / disconnect the meter.

 

[JHZR2]

You can call your utility to cancel your account or disconnect, work on your panel, then call them to reconnect. I don't think they charge that and if so not much. No need to pull / disconnect the meter.

if replacing the service entrance cable. It’s an unprotected connection coming from the street. They could disconnect it there, sure. I’m not sure they do when “pros” are working on it. I know the electrician who did mine did not disconnect. Nor did they pull the permit.

They saved/made money at my expense based upon a lie (they told me they would pull a permit).

 

[oldgrayman]

Most utility companies require an inspection from the AHJ before reconnecting power after work has been done .

 

[JeffKeryk]

Most utility companies require an inspection from the AHJ before reconnecting power after work has been done .

Yeah, PG&E did an inspection before doing the drop to our new service panel as well as the solar installation.

 

[oil pan 4]

My house was "inspected" and the inspection was worth less than used toilet paper because it was all messed up.

 

[bbhero]

Scott's Tractor Service?

When Dominion installed my new 400A service on our new construction, they didn't dig a trench, they had a machine that went into the ground and vibrated to cut any roots etc and pulled the cable at the same time, you couldn't even tell it had been done when they left and they ran it about 250ft.

Not meaning to give a hard time here.. Not my intent at all. However there’s a lot you don’t know about my very good friend Scott. You would have really liked him and wanted a man like him to do work for you… I guarantee that.

First off my reference point there was a new water line from the street main to that multi million dollars man’s home. And it was a sizable increase in that new water main line going to that house. Second my good friend Scott was a master plumber, pipefitter and welder who had his own successful business. Scott’s wife died right in front of him… I believe she had a pulmonary embolism .. He did cpr on her for 12 minutes until the first responders showed up… They live out in the woods in my home county of Gloucester. Imagine doing everything you can and try and that person who you love and been married to for 18 years dies right there with you… And his wife was in her very late 40s.. And his daughter right there too to witness that.. A year and 4 months later He took his own life taking an insulin overdose 11 years ago… Scott did excellent work and was precise in how he did things. He was an extremely good in his work. And even better person and friend to me… He was in my graduation party and in my wedding… God… I still miss him tremendously. No lie… Hurts a lot to this day… But I’m grateful to have gotten to know him.

To be straightforward I haven’t done that type of work regarding electrical in like 24 darn years…

You think that machine is cheap ?

Or free ?

And they are going to have to pay for someone to operate that thing and it will not be a low rate I’d bet either …


Did you have to pay for that being done ?

If so… How much ?

If not… Then everyone is paying for it… Nothing “ Free” .. . In this world…


Like that guy who paid quite a lot of money for that new 400 ft plus water line in Newport News that time. At least he paid for that new water main line himself.

 

[thastinger]

Well ok fine… I haven’t done that type of work regarding electrical in like 24 darn years…

Did you have to pay for that being done ?

If so… How much ?

If not… Then everyone is paying for it… Nothing “ Free” .. . In this world.

And yes it’s my darn opinion… You want a new electric line or water main line to your home….

You pay for… No one else should be a part of that.

Like that guy who paid quite a lot of money for that new 400 ft plus water line in Newport News that time.

The new service line did not cost me money to Dominion.

Yes, everyone pays that cost, it appears on your bill under "transmission"...my cost for transmission was 15.24 last month...I also paid 4.63 for "off-shore wind" last month + 1.66 for "clean energy projects" + 1.29 for "renewable energy projects" + 2.89 for "coal ash closure"

I'm assuming that you haven't looked at your Dominion bill lately?

 

[bbhero]

The new service line did not cost me money to Dominion.

Yes, everyone pays that cost, it appears on your bill under "transmission"...my cost for transmission was 15.24 last month...I also paid 4.63 for "off-shore wind" last month + 1.66 for "clean energy projects" + 1.29 for "renewable energy projects" + 2.89 for "coal ash closure"

I'm assuming that you haven't looked at your Dominion bill lately?

I haven’t looked at that in 10 plus years… my wife pays the bills.

I think it should be paid for by property developers and if there are any lines off that line then individual property owners pay for that last section to their homes. Upfront.


That is just my way of seeing that… But what I think doesn’t matter.

That guy in Newport News paid a fair amount of money for that new larger water line… Like he should have.

 

[PandaBear]

My house was "inspected" and the inspection was worth less than used toilet paper because it was all messed up.

I think it is usually for insurance company to cover their butt if things went wrong and file a claim against them. Not really about something else.

 

[xmanjeff]

may want to look into doing a solar charger install , a friend of mine mentioned he didthat and they did all sorts of upgrades to the wiring in the home but like 75% of it was covered by incentives

just a thought

 

[dlundblad]

The guys doing the install know about the kickback you’re getting.

10k is extremely high.

 

[TXCarGeek]

I have to confess that the 225 Amp service is a bit questionable. I've got 200 Amp service for a 2800 square foot home with five tons of cooling. Granted my range, primary heating system and hot water are all gas fired.

Do you by any chance have detailed records of your electricity use? There may be a pretty good way to estimate your peak useage if you have that data. 225 Amp service seems over the top for your house, but then the electrician may be designing for a worst case scenario that assumes you are charging in peak hours of the summer after you've decided to add a few tons of cooling to your home.

Moving on, are you planning to just charge whenever, or charge at night when your other electrical demands are low? I am in the process of installing a 40 Amp level 2 charging station that can be programmed to operate at off peak hours. The answer to your dilemma might be found here.

I need to see if I can log into my provider and see what type of usage tracking, if any, that they show.

Most charging will take place over night during off peak.

 

[TXCarGeek]

Update for those curious: have another, local electrician coming out tomorrow to take a look at things.

In the meantime, I’ve been using this charger (Lectron NEMA 10-30 Level 2 EV Charger - 240V / 16 Amp - with 21 ft Extension Cord - Compatible with J1772 EVs https://a.co/d/g23ppbV) with a NEMA 10-30 plug to go into the outlet for my dryer. Dryer is in the garage and the charger easily reaches the vehicle. Pulls 16amps which is 2/3 of what the dryer pulls. It’s worked well in a pinch.

 

[JHZR2]

Most utility companies require an inspection from the AHJ before reconnecting power after work has been done .

That’s my point about tradespeople not being 100% honest and charging for things not done.

A skilled electrician can disconnect mains from the street, replace service entrance cable, and reconnect. Heck, my neighbor did it diy recently.

The utility will inspect to make an initial connection. But to repair or change from there, not necessarily.

Thus my experience. Two buildings, one with upgrading entrance cable, socket, and panel (without pulling permits), the other needing to do an inspected new install. Both cost about the same. About $2k.

 

[thastinger]

I haven’t looked at that in 10 plus years… my wife pays the bills.

I think it should be paid for by property developers and if there are any lines off that line then individual property owners pay for that last section to their homes. Upfront.


That is just my way of seeing that… But what I think doesn’t matter.

That guy in Newport News paid a fair amount of money for that new larger water line… Like he should have.

I fully expected to have to pay for the service line and was fully prepared to do just that, but there was no charge.

I also didn't have to buy the meter they put on the side of the house, I'm assuming you didn't have to purchase your meter either?