A lot of the work and service performed by the trades is simple stuff anyone handy can handle themselves. I can't imagine how much I would have spent over the years if I didn't DIY. I would not attempt a panel replacement, but if I had a newer panel I would certainly add the receptacle myself.
$10k for a 240v outlet install?
- Thread starter TXCarGeek
- Start date
A lot of the work and service performed by the trades is simple stuff anyone handy can handle themselves. I can't imagine how much I would have spent over the years if I didn't DIY. I would not attempt a panel replacement, but if I had a newer panel I would certainly add the receptacle myself.
JHZR2
Staff member
So true.
I would attempt a panel replacement if that’s all it is. Assuming you could pull the meter from the base and make the equipment totally dead, it would be ok.
The nuance is the need to upgrade the service entrance cable to something with higher ampacity. Doing that interacts with an unprotected cable coming from the grid. That’s not something to risk in diy imo. Especially while up on a ladder.
Then the question of necessity comes up. Is a higher entry cable actually necessary? Or is the upgraded panel being done to get more breaker spots?
I was wondering about that one myself. It might be good enough for the additional vehicle charger, but if you are thinking about doing something else in the future, like an electric on demand water heater, or something I'd want more, and an interlock for a backup generator.
4WD
$50 site donor 2025
JHZR2
Staff member
You need 3 more quotes, something is missing here if not 10k is outrageous
Ten grand should include ripping out aluminum wire. Just to do a meter and panel upgrade 10 is high.
Is your whole house ran off that?
No, this is the meter and main panel. Second pic is box on the right opened
Attachments
Yeah it looks like it's time for a new panel. Make sure they're installing the meter base the electric company is currently using.
I have to confess that the 225 Amp service is a bit questionable. I've got 200 Amp service for a 2800 square foot home with five tons of cooling. Granted my range, primary heating system and hot water are all gas fired.
Do you by any chance have detailed records of your electricity use? There may be a pretty good way to estimate your peak useage if you have that data. 225 Amp service seems over the top for your house, but then the electrician may be designing for a worst case scenario that assumes you are charging in peak hours of the summer after you've decided to add a few tons of cooling to your home.
Moving on, are you planning to just charge whenever, or charge at night when your other electrical demands are low? I am in the process of installing a 40 Amp level 2 charging station that can be programmed to operate at off peak hours. The answer to your dilemma might be found here.
The funny thing my brother in law has a RAV4 Prime(PHEV) which initially used an extension cord (110V) to standalone garage along with openers.
In order to get a Level 2 outlet in garage required a full service upgrade 100AMP to 200+ AMP. However due to “incentives” they got electrical upgraded “free” with solar installation of close to $35k with a pair of level 2 chargers installed. The setup also included a generator hookup.
So they are at $35k!! however electric bill dropped from $140/month to zero with 40 miles range “free” daily. I think 40 miles is about a gallon of gas with RAV4 hybrid and nothing is close to them as they commute that one way.
In order to get a Level 2 outlet in garage required a full service upgrade 100AMP to 200+ AMP. However due to “incentives” they got electrical upgraded “free” with solar installation of close to $35k with a pair of level 2 chargers installed. The setup also included a generator hookup.
So they are at $35k!! however electric bill dropped from $140/month to zero with 40 miles range “free” daily. I think 40 miles is about a gallon of gas with RAV4 hybrid and nothing is close to them as they commute that one way.
So their break even point is over 20 years? I'd sign them up for a math class and economics course at the local community college.
Your panels are full (no available breaker space). It’s unclear which breaker in the outdoor panel feeds the indoor sub panel, but you are allowed a maximum of 6 main disconnects per code (you are already at 6), since you do not appear to have a main circuit breaker. Also, your subpanel may only be fed by a 50A breaker - so the EV charge could only come from the outdoor panel. I agree with the electrician that you need new panels. The panels are 60 years old and there’s lots of corrosion on the outdoor panel. I’d replace it all. Quote initially seems high, but that seems to be the normal lately. The service upgrade isn’t because the contractor is trying to rip you off - but because there isn’t a way to do a code compliant install on a new 50A circuit without some sort of hack job. If you find a contractor willing to do this work without replacing panels it will be a hack job.
The surge protector is a requirement of 2020 NEC on residential dwellings on new installs or when replacing a service. Definitely make sure whatever contractor you hire that it gets inspected. A lot of non inspected work is garbage. Inspected work doesn’t mean it won’t be a garbage install, but it should at least not have glaring and dangerous code violations.
A 200 or 225A service upgrade is really a no brainer - the cost difference between a 150A and a 200A is practically nothing. This is assuming the service wire from the meter can to the panel is properly sized and the service upgrade is just a larger capacity panel. What size is the meter can - it’s likely already a 200A.
The service feed from the utility doesn’t follow the NEC. It follows the NESC. And utilities will run 200A wire to a 600A service - they don’t care and follow their own rules. The contractor doing the install can do a load calculation on your home if you really to see if the service upgrade is required. But again, the upgrade may be a no brainer due to little to no cost difference to you.
Finally, the estimate is vague. Contractors have a take it or leave it attitude these days since work is plentiful. My father is a retired electrician and would put together invoices with every piece of material he used and his labor costs. I’m in the same field of work and I can promise you nobody does this anymore. Your estimate breakdown is “the standard” these days.
The surge protector is a requirement of 2020 NEC on residential dwellings on new installs or when replacing a service. Definitely make sure whatever contractor you hire that it gets inspected. A lot of non inspected work is garbage. Inspected work doesn’t mean it won’t be a garbage install, but it should at least not have glaring and dangerous code violations.
A 200 or 225A service upgrade is really a no brainer - the cost difference between a 150A and a 200A is practically nothing. This is assuming the service wire from the meter can to the panel is properly sized and the service upgrade is just a larger capacity panel. What size is the meter can - it’s likely already a 200A.
The service feed from the utility doesn’t follow the NEC. It follows the NESC. And utilities will run 200A wire to a 600A service - they don’t care and follow their own rules. The contractor doing the install can do a load calculation on your home if you really to see if the service upgrade is required. But again, the upgrade may be a no brainer due to little to no cost difference to you.
Finally, the estimate is vague. Contractors have a take it or leave it attitude these days since work is plentiful. My father is a retired electrician and would put together invoices with every piece of material he used and his labor costs. I’m in the same field of work and I can promise you nobody does this anymore. Your estimate breakdown is “the standard” these days.
Last edited:
OP?
He seems sharp enough to ask, so not scamming yet. Trying to scam perhaps, insufficient information on details of job. (lousy bid info, avoid)
Waiting for more bids to be posted.
This caught my eye because I am crazy about surge suppressors in my home. I have them on everything except the oven and dryer.
I have thought about whole house but never did one.
Ok, with that said, I am not seeing what you posted in our house. It was built, inspected and C/O issued in 2023
BTW- I am VERY knowledgeable on household service but wasnt my trade so maybe I am missing something new in my panel? Though I cant tell it isnt here, UNLESS it is part of the unlabeled "Main"
Last edited:
States do not always adopt the latest NEC and even when they do, they can amend it to remove some requirements.
From the North Carolina 2020 code:
Agree, but wondering if @GMFan has anything to add because I "took" his post to read almost like it's universally accepted. (on the scale of lets say a GFIC) Anyway just curious if you look closely at the photo I just posted above. The "main" does have two small holes and I am curious if it was a built in surge which then would mean one should be in green indicator.
(just grabbing at straws here to see if GM has anything to add because IF something wasnt working its under warranty for a few more months)
or as you say North Carolina doesnt require it and the main is designed to have one and why the two holes but in this case if its not required there is nothing in there
Ok, after a search I can see the National code, at least in the photos, show the typical surge installed as breakers and not the "main" so obviously not required (adopted yet) in North Carolina.
https://blog.se.com/energy-manageme...l-electric-code-changes-for-surge-protection/
Last edited:
Not required, I looked it up, see edit to my post above.
