1 filter, 3 OCIs

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Community coffee? Never heard of it... this ain't like some kinda Village People thing now is it?

KC, it's a Louisiana thing.
Ever heard of Cafe' Du Monde in New Oleans? They serve coffee with Chicory, exclusively.

http://www.communitycoffee.com/


http://www.cafedumonde.com/

 

[Coprolite]

You get shot and fed to the gators near NOLA airport if you don't visit Cafe du Monde.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: Coprolite
You get shot and fed to the gators near NOLA airport if you don't visit Cafe du Monde.

Well, they had to stop doing that. Ever since ammo prices have escalated they had to find a way to save money.
They just make a voodoo doll of you and threaten to use it if you don't go.

 

[JavierG]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
YES, YES, YES, YES !!!!!!!!!

I do 3 OCI's (20K miles) on an oversized Purolator Classic on our Hondas.
7K miles, 7K miles and 6K miles.

I do 2 OCI's with conventional oil and various low cost filters, 7-8k or 1 year each OCI. The LS400 is more than 300k miles and NO engine problems. With syn oil I do 1 year OCI up to 14-16k miles.

Now there's an endorsement for a 2 OCI per 1 FCI if ever I heard one.

 

[Kuato]

Just to throw this out there, Purolator has stopped warranting their filters beyond 3000 miles.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2932164&page=1

I'd say if you can be certain your filter will NOT go into bypass during multiple oil changes, then you should be able to use it as long as you like - as noted the filtration efficiency increases. However to my knowledge there is no indication of just when it goes into bypass so you cannot be sure.

It's odd that on this forum, folks suggest used oil analysis for the oil before extending the OCI, but just go ahead and make recommendations to use oil filters for multiple changes without any monitoring or testing.

I am not saying that the manufacturer is wrong if they say to use an oil filter for more than one change; they've obviously done some research and found it ok - for that vehicle.

Until there's a way to find out if the filter's going into bypass, I'll stick with BOF on this one. (Although back in the 80s to save money I did use filters for 2 OCs...but that was on a very old car with 2500 mile OCI)

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: Kuato
Just to throw this out there, Purolator has stopped warranting their filters beyond 3000 miles.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2932164&page=1

I'd say if you can be certain your filter will NOT go into bypass during multiple oil changes, then you should be able to use it as long as you like - as noted the filtration efficiency increases. However to my knowledge there is no indication of just when it goes into bypass so you cannot be sure.

It's odd that on this forum, folks suggest used oil analysis for the oil before extending the OCI, but just go ahead and make recommendations to use oil filters for multiple changes without any monitoring or testing.

I am not saying that the manufacturer is wrong if they say to use an oil filter for more than one change; they've obviously done some research and found it ok - for that vehicle.

Until there's a way to find out if the filter's going into bypass, I'll stick with BOF on this one. (Although back in the 80s to save money I did use filters for 2 OCs...but that was on a very old car with 2500 mile OCI)

My Army is being built, one member at a time.

 

[dnewton3]

Originally Posted By: Kuato
Just to throw this out there, Purolator has stopped warranting their filters beyond 3000 miles.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2932164&page=1



That is a misleading statement. That is a nine-page thread and you've given a one-sentence summation. In fact, you have made a grave error in the use of terms "recommended" and "warranty". In that that thread, Purolator is intially quoted from an email response as "recommending" 3mo/3k mile oil/filter changes for all their products. But that has ZERO to do with their warranty statment. You state (above) that "Purolator has stopped warranting their filters beyond 3000 miles." That is simply untrue and a gross misinterpretation of Purolator's statement, in both their email response and their written warranty.

Further, in a court of law or arbitration, the written word will always prevail over the spoken word. What some low-pay techie tells us on the phone pales in contrast to what is written, especially in an official corporate "limited warranty" statment.

Let's look at the real writen limited warranty:
http://www.purolatorautofilters.net/document/Documents/PuroLimitedWarranty.pdf

You can see the following words ...
This limited warranty is effective for the number of miles and driving severity published in the owner's vehicle manual as the recommended service interval for filter replacements (“Warranty Period”).

My example, the 2000 Galant, specifically states that "normal" use has an FCI of 2x the OCI; the OCI is 7.5k miles. Therefore, a normal ol' white-can Classic is good for 15k miles, per Purolator's WRITTEN warranty because they reference the Mitsubishi manual maintenance criteria.

And no amount of "yabut ..." from a some help line goof-ball will stand up against that in legal proceedings.

When they change the written warranty to state "three months or three thousand miles regardless of OEM reccomendations", then I'll be concerned. Until then, they are legally obligated to warranty my 15k mile FCI application in use of their product, according to US law (commonly known as the Magnuson/Moss warranty act) which specifically details the rights and responsibilities of warrantors and warrantees. Far too many people think they know about their warranty and far too few understand how the law really works; it protects both the warrantor and the warrantee. See here ...
http://www.business.ftc.gov/documents/bus01-businesspersons-guide-federal-warranty-law

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Kuato
It's odd that on this forum, folks suggest used oil analysis for the oil before extending the OCI, but just go ahead and make recommendations to use oil filters for multiple changes without any monitoring or testing.


Oil is a tough one. Most motor oils do not have specific mileage intervals associated with it. Some have gone out on that limb, but most have not. Even so, given the right oil and the right vehicle, I would have no problem extending the interval without a used oil analysis. I myself am not a huge fan of used oil analysis, though I do enjoy looking at them. I don't think they necessarily indicate a problem with filtration or with the oil itself, though they can give clues to things like coolant contamination or possibly air filtration issues.

To me, this situation is different. As far as I recall, the OP has a new (or newer) vehicle, so contamination and sludge are most likely not concerns. The OP's vehicle DOES use a cartridge filter, so filter inspection can occur at each oil change. Additionally, the filter in question (the Fram Ultra) is designed by Fram to be a long-duration filter. Putting each of these aspects together, the OP is a good candidate for multiple oil changes on the same filter, on the vehicle in question and using the filter in question.

But I would not recommend that you, for example, run a Purolator Classic or a Fram Extra Guard for multiple oil changes on your 2004 Jeep. It's nearly 10 years old now and may have varnish inside the engine. Neither of those filters are designed for long runs either. Though I run some filters for two oil changes now on my current vehicles, I never did that with my older vehicles, because I wasn't comfortable with that on the older engines and I wasn't using the appropriate filters.

It all depends on the situation.

 

[Kuato]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd

It all depends on the situation.


I agree with you 100% on that. And with a cartridge filter(something I've not owned yet) you can certainly inspect it...which brings the question of what standards are being used to decide when to trash the filter?

But...it still can't be known for certain from a visual inspection if the filter will go into bypass during an oil run. For me, "probably ok" is just not good enough for a $4000 or more engine.


------------------

Originally Posted By: dnewton3


That is a misleading statement. That is a FIVE-page thread and you've given a one-sentence summation. ...


Thanks for that, you're correct of course. (Egads, I have been thoroughly lawyered. I bow to you sir, and I say that with a smile because I used to work for and with them.

)

I agree with you completely that the warranty as written will (or should) cover a vehicle for the manufacturer's recommended interval. I also agree heartily that it would be a long drawn out painful process to get them to honor that warranty. And I haven't checked back at that thread in awhile, I see where someone at Purolator finally spoke from their mouth using their brain, instead of another orifice.

Things I have concerns about (and this can likely be applied to any oil filter warranty) is that there is a LOT that is subjective in their warranty.

For example, "Manufacturer's suggested...." my interval in the owner's manual is a 3000 mile OCI for severe service, defined in part as temps below 32(0C), or high speed driving(50% or more in temps above 90(32C). So by those definitions alone I am driving severe service nearly year round, despite the heated garage and despite the fact it's 25 miles to work/town at 70mph posted limit. Or is 70 really "high speed"...it's subjective.

Anyway, under the warranty we're discussing they could throw out any claim since I failed to follow the manufacturer's recommendation, even though it was their filter that failed...at 3001 miles into an oil change. I guess THAT is more my point. It would be best to sit around and have a beer

to talk about this stuff with smiles on our faces, but on the interweb here sometimes it's tough to say what you mean clearly.

----------------------


Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter

My Army is being built, one member at a time.

When do I get my combination membership/I.D. card?

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: Kuato


----------------------


Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter

My Army is being built, one member at a time.

When do I get my combination membership/I.D. card?


All that is required is to put the "One Filter,One OCI!" birth mark into your signature and you're in. Oh, and

anytime a Honda owner confronts you.

 

[Kuato]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: Kuato


----------------------


Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter

My Army is being built, one member at a time.

When do I get my combination membership/I.D. card?


All that is required is to put the "One Filter,One OCI!" birth mark into your signature and you're in. Oh, and

anytime a Honda owner confronts you.

Hahaha. Done!


I can poke at Honda owners, but no reason to if the owner's manual says to do it.... besides, if a Honda owner only used 1 filter per OCI, couldn't they be accused of not following manufacturer's recommendations?

 

[GMBoy]

Let's take your scenario one step further based on your saving resources point....why not just run Mobil 1 Extended Performance for 15,000 miles (it is advertised as a 15k oil) on that filter. With that you save resources in your filter AND 2 oil changes worth of oil based on your 5k interval.

Just a thought.

 

[Kuato]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Let's take your scenario one step further based on your saving resources point....why not just run Mobil 1 Extended Performance for 15,000 miles (it is advertised as a 15k oil) on that filter. With that you save resources in your filter AND 2 oil changes worth of oil based on your 5k interval.

Just a thought.


That's "right thinking" there. Amsoil filters come to mind for me, and that's the way I'm headed as soon as all my "old" (<15000mile) filters are used up.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Kuato
But...it still can't be known for certain from a visual inspection if the filter will go into bypass during an oil run. For me, "probably ok" is just not good enough for a $4000 or more engine.


You're right, you can't know for certain. You also can't know for certain if the filter that's on your vehicle right now is or is not bypassing. You go with what you're comfortable with.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: Kuato
But...it still can't be known for certain from a visual inspection if the filter will go into bypass during an oil run. For me, "probably ok" is just not good enough for a $4000 or more engine.


You're right, you can't know for certain. You also can't know for certain if the filter that's on your vehicle right now is or is not bypassing.

I don't know. Rumor has it that a major car manufacturer has trained its techs to be able to determine if an oil filter needs to be replaced at each OCI. If said tech can't determine this then it's the service mgr.'s decision. I think this is one for "Unsolved Mysteries" or "Ripley's Believe It Or Not!"

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Rumor has it that a major car manufacturer has trained its techs to be able to determine if an oil filter needs to be replaced at each OCI. If said tech can't determine this then it's the service mgr.'s decision.


Ah, that's just one of those internet rumors. You know those get started...

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Rumor has it that a major car manufacturer has trained its techs to be able to determine if an oil filter needs to be replaced at each OCI. If said tech can't determine this then it's the service mgr.'s decision.


Ah, that's just one of those internet rumors. You know those get started...

Yeah. the Honda techs only go by the A/B maintenance reminder on the dash, just like the service manual/owner's manual says. If they get a car they don't routinely service, they probably just put a new filter on to be safe.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Rumor has it that a major car manufacturer has trained its techs to be able to determine if an oil filter needs to be replaced at each OCI. If said tech can't determine this then it's the service mgr.'s decision.


Ah, that's just one of those internet rumors. You know those get started...

Yeah. the Honda techs only go by the A/B maintenance reminder on the dash, just like the service manual/owner's manual says. If they get a car they don't routinely service, they probably just put a new filter on to be safe.

Or, not put one on but say they did and charge you for it.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Rumor has it that a major car manufacturer has trained its techs to be able to determine if an oil filter needs to be replaced at each OCI. If said tech can't determine this then it's the service mgr.'s decision.


Ah, that's just one of those internet rumors. You know those get started...

Yeah. the Honda techs only go by the A/B maintenance reminder on the dash, just like the service manual/owner's manual says. If they get a car they don't routinely service, they probably just put a new filter on to be safe.

Or, not put one on but say they did and charge you for it.

Doubt it ... but doesn't mean if could happen. That's why I like doing my own maintenance.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Doubt it ... but doesn't mean if could happen. That's why I like doing my own maintenance.

When Ford did my OCIs I would watch. When my tires are rotated and balanced, I watch. At one time I did ALL of my PM.