$1,300+ monthly payment????!!!!!!

[JeffKeryk]

Your parents being from Ukraine should’ve given you all the knowledge you need. Nobody in the history could make it work, millions of lives have perished as a result, what is there to understand other than it’s an evil system?

My paternal grand parents were from Ukraine.
Without putting words in your mouth, I believe you are thinking in extremes. For example, Capitalism can have serious problems, such as monopoly power, economic instability and short termism. Many speak to the wealth divide in America. There is much more. In America, Socialism tends to add things that the private sector is not able to provide or chooses not to. The US Military is the single biggest Socialist function in the world. Our Police Forces. Social Security has pulled our seniors out of poverty. Public infrastructure (roads, bridges, airports) connects us across the US (and beyond) and offers opportunities for education, healthcare, and employment. Not to mention public schools.

My point is, looking only at extremes ignores the good and bad of just about everything, depending on your point of view.
I am a Capitalist; Capitalism has pulled more people out of poverty than any other economic system. But I am also in favor of using Socialism to supply needs that are not Capitalist appropriate.

 

[Pew]

Yes I got called plenty of names and was bullied in high school because of my ethnicity and language barrier at the time, and I’m as white as white can be.
Please spare me the victim mentality.

Unless someone does actual violence against another person, words are just that. The people or groups of people that complain what others say about them, oftentimes do the exact same thing.

And I suppose you think a burning cross in front of a Black family's house is not an act of violence. Thanks, you just proved why racial and gender study classes are a thing now.

Here's some more examples:

1. Elder Asian parents being kicked out of the gym because "YOU BROUGHT CORONA VIRUS!"
2. A Black guy being denied interviews when he put his birth name on his resume, but then when he puts his "American" name instead, he gets interviews.

Want more examples?

 

[PWMDMD]

Yes I got called plenty of names and was bullied in high school because of my ethnicity and language barrier at the time, and I’m as white as white can be.
Please spare me the victim mentality.

Unless someone does actual violence against another person, words are just that. The people or groups of people that complain what others say about them, oftentimes do the exact same thing.

Sounds horrible. Other than being referred to as a large Irishman in a not-so-terrible way that I find funny, I have no real idea what real racism feels like or how it would affect me. I have spent my entire life doing just about whatever I want without anyone questioning me with the assumption there isn't anything within clearly defined rules that I can't do. I can acknowledge this fact without feeling guilty about my own status or ascribing blame to any group of people. Is it because I'm a white male? Maybe, or maybe it's because I'm well-spoken, polite, and confident. Maybe, it's a combination of all of these...is that "white privilege"? IDK, but not a day goes by that I'm not happy to be a heterosexual white male in America.

 

[KrisZ]

My paternal grand parents were from Ukraine.
Without putting words in your mouth, I believe you are thinking in extremes. For example, Capitalism can have serious problems, such as monopoly power, economic instability and short termism. Many speak to the wealth divide in America. There is much more. In America, Socialism tends to add things that the private sector is not able to provide or chooses not to. The US Military is the single biggest Socialist function in the world. Our Police Forces. Social Security has pulled our seniors out of poverty. Public infrastructure (roads, bridges, airports) connects us across the US (and beyond) and offers opportunities for education, healthcare, and employment. Not to mention public schools.

My point is, looking only at extremes ignores the good and bad of just about everything, depending on your point of view.
I am a Capitalist; Capitalism has pulled more people out of poverty than any other economic system. But I am also in favor of using Socialism to supply needs that are not Capitalist appropriate.

Not taking anything into extremes. I know history, uncontrolled capitalism leads to the same outcome as socialism, that is tyranny.
I’m definitely not agains social programs or government control of some aspects.

Socialism and social programs are not the same, I hope you understand that.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Yes I got called plenty of names and was bullied in high school because of my ethnicity and language barrier at the time, and I’m as white as white can be.
Please spare me the victim mentality.

Unless someone does actual violence against another person, words are just that. The people or groups of people that complain what others say about them, oftentimes do the exact same thing.

I salute you for your progress, but if you do not think there is racism, bigotry, etc in America you are mistaken. My gay brothers and sisters, my black and brown brothers and sisters, my disabled brothers and sisters all walk a much rockier road than I. I see it every day. If a black man walks into an elevator, purses will be clutched.

 

[ET16]

I’m one of the recipients of a “liberal” education. I studied literature, philosophy, art, architecture, history, etc. and engage these disciplines still.

It has made me little money, but it has made me a better, richer person and a better citizen.

Let me give you an example of the “liberal” education at work: a couple of years ago our family was walking in the woods in Virginia. We came upon a long, beautiful, but decaying stonewall. I remembered Frost’s poem “Mending Wall,” a poem that I had read in a literature class.

We pulled it up on a phone and read it. The poem thickened our experience. It gave the wall a cultural context and sharpened our historical understanding of what the wall might have meant to the people who built it. It was beautiful, and the day was better and richer for the way that that wall and poem came together across history and people.

The poem is famous for Frost’s quotation of his neighbor: “Good fences make good neighbors,” his neighbor says. Do they? I think the neighbor is right, but I wish he weren’t.

The first line “Something there is that doesn’t love a wall” is also poignant. I looked at the wall and understood what he meant.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Not taking anything into extremes. I know history, uncontrolled capitalism leads to the same outcome as socialism, that is tyranny.
I’m definitely not agains social programs or government control of some aspects.

Socialism and social programs are not the same, I hope you understand that.

Wrong. Social programs are examples of Socialism. The American economy is defined as a "mixed economy"; a blend of Cpaitalism and Socialism.
A mixed economic system protects some private property and allows a level of economic freedom in the use of capital, but also allows for governments to intervene in economic activities in order to achieve social aims and for the public good.

 

[KrisZ]

And I suppose you think a burning cross in front of a Black family's house is not an act of violence. Thanks, you just proved why racial and gender study classes are a thing now.

Here's some more examples:

1. Elder Asian parents being kicked out of the gym because "YOU BROUGHT CORONA VIRUS!"
2. A Black guy being denied interviews when he put his birth name on his resume, but then when he puts his "American" name instead, he gets interviews.

Want more examples?

You can suppose whatever you like. What you describe is not systemic racism, that’s racism on a personal level. Never said that doesn’t exist.
If it happens it should be addressed, just like any act of violence or any other type of crime.

 

[PWMDMD]

Where do you think the idea of equality, systemic oppression, victimization and group ideology comes from? The change of language by the use of pronouns in todays case, which is just a start, do you think it’s new? It already has happened during Lenin takeover.

The “one percenters” you hear today were called bourgeoisie back then. The oppressed today (any person of color, trans etc) were the proletariat back then. Nothing is new.

Who do you mostly see at BLM “mostly peaceful” protests, or antifa rallies? Pretty much young people. They are the ones being manipulated, it’s not just innocent discussion as you suggest.

Why have the terms equality, systemic oppression, victimization, and group ideology not come up in my daily life today, yesterday, last month, or in the past year? Ok...maybe equality has. Again, it's not that this isn't out there but I question just how "systemic" it really is out there? I know you feel like it's everywhere and a huge problem but take the "pronouns issue", I have thousands of young patients, and maybe 5-10 have expressed they'd like to use different pronouns. Is this really a huge issue?

 

[KrisZ]

Wrong. Social programs are examples of Socialism. The American economy is defined as a "mixed economy"; a blend of Cpaitalism and Socialism.
A mixed economic system protects some private property and allows a level of economic freedom in the use of capital, but also allows for governments to intervene in economic activities in order to achieve social aims and for the public good.

Well we can agree to disagree I guess.

 

[KrisZ]

Why have the terms equality, systemic oppression, victimization, and group ideology not come up in my daily life today, yesterday, last month, or in the past year? Ok...maybe equality has. Again, it's not that this isn't out there but I question just how "systemic" it really is out there? I know you feel like it's everywhere and a huge problem but take the "pronouns issue", I have thousands of young patients, and maybe 5-10 have expressed they'd like to use different pronouns. Is this really a huge issue?

So when do you suppose it will be a huge issue? Once you lose your job for misgendering someone? Hauled of to a gulag perhaps because of some old social media post? Do you truly not see it as a slippery slope?

Like I said before, it’s not like it hasn’t happened before, nothing is new.

 

[andyd]

Gee whiz, if I had that kinda budget for wheels, I'd pay somebody with a lift and a welder and tools to rehab the Rat. The to do list would be at least 2 pages long

 

[JeffKeryk]

Well we can agree to disagree I guess.

You can say that if you wish, but perhaps review the definitions of Capitalism and Socialism, and the use of each in America.

 

[billt460]

Well no one is forced to be at that institution...

No, but they'll wish they never set foot in the joint if they can't find a career after they did, and paid the price. The problem with these type of things, is the regret always comes after the fact. Then it's too late...... Much like that $1,300 a month car payment, that no one forced them into either.

(Do you see how cleverly I steered this thread back on track)?

 

[KrisZ]

You can say that if you wish, but perhaps review the definitions of Capitalism and Socialism, and the use of each in America.

Definitions change and the one you have is a step towards full out communism. If a government can step in and take your property for a “greater good” without fair compensation, it is not under any social program. It’s full tyranny and I’m pretty sure US constitution protects us from such overreach. I’m sure it happens though.

 

[PWMDMD]

So when do you suppose it will be a huge issue? Once you lose your job for misgendering someone? Hauled of to a gulag perhaps because of some old social media post? Do you truly not see it as a slippery slope?

Like I said before, it’s not like it hasn’t happened before, nothing is new.

One of the unique differences between people who lean left vs right seems to be their perception of threat. I do not on any given day, week or probably month or even year feel like my body or my life or my livelihood or my way of life is under threat. Same sex people want to get married? What do I care, I'm in a heterosexual and happy marriage. Someone wants to change their pronouns? What do I care, I'll still use he/him. I don't see these as personal assults on me or my way of life. Everything has the potential to be a slippery slope and no I'm not worried about being cancelled.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Definitions change and the one you have is a step towards full out communism. If a government can step in and take your property for a “greater good” without fair compensation, it is not under any social program. It’s full tyranny and I’m pretty sure US constitution protects us from such overreach. I’m sure it happens though.

You are talking in extremes. America is a mixed economy. In fact, almost all modern economic systems in the world today are mixed economies.

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

I understand, and agree. It would be great to have a [unified] school system that could just focus on academics but with the way society is combined with the gaps of knowledge, understanding, and acceptance, it leads me to below:



White supremacy, no. Systemic racism, in a way yes. Legally, racism doesn't exist but I can 100% tell you racism still exist. Yes people of all color and ethnicity still go to the same school, shop at the same stores because legally they are able to. It wasn't that long ago when segregation was prevalent in the USA, especially in certain regions. Some members in this forum have posted how they still remember minorities sitting at the back of the bus or drinking from a different water fountain or beat if they went to go vote. We have college courses about it because some folks can't be bothered to realize this is the 21st century and racism *should* have no place, yet it still does. I'm sure everybody here remembers the discrimination protests a few years ago. I know Martin Luther King Jr is still taught in school and a national holiday. Here's a few discriminations that I've noticed since the 2000, in order too:

1. Muslim hate after 9/11
2. Black hate
3. Latin/Hispanic hate
4. Asian hate after Virginia Tech
5. Muslim hate after that
6. Back to Latin/Hispanic hate
7. Asian/Black hate during CV19 and the protests

You ever wonder what it's like walking into a BBQ spot in the South, everybody there is of a ethnicity, and they look at you like there's an object growing out of your forehead? What about walking into a bakery owned by a certain race and they don't help you because of your ethnicity? Every get your sport equipment grabbed and thrown on the street by some cops of a certain race because "you can't afford anything like this so you must have stolen it?" Ever get called Corona Virus because of your ethnicity? Ever get called the Virginia Tech shooter because of your ethnicity? Ever get called the "N" word? Ever get told "selling drugs must be going good" because you're a minority with a nice car?

 

[PandaBear]

I've read through a bunch of arguments here that modern higher education systems are garbage because of the "whatever I don't like" political teaching.

I think you guys need to chill.

To be a accredited university it cannot just teach ideology, it needs to teach whatever subjects the major requires, plus a few other electives to satisfy "general educations" for whatever isn't in the major. Students are free to pick among a list of courses they like that satisfied those requirements.

Are all courses patriotic? No, we are not a dictatorship.
Are all courses objective? Hopefully, or students should report the professor to the dean and have him or her fired.
Are the professors there to make you happy and not challenge your believe? Well, you are supposed to be a grown up and tolerate other people challenging your opinion with legitimate arguments. If you are offended, I'm sorry.

Why are you offended when someone else is going to school and they learn something you don't like? Why are people upset at university and say students should go to trade schools instead? If it is a financial argument I think it make sense. If you are trying to run away from "ideology", that's stupid IMO.


You don't have to be a political science major just because you go to college, you can be a programmer or engineer or doctors, you know.

 

[PWMDMD]

You are talking in extremes. America is a mixed economy. In fact, almost all modern economic systems in the world today are mixed economies.

There seem to be two major minds sets in America:

1. Dichotomous thinking of black/white, good/bad, right/wrong, yes/no with a constant feeling of personal threat to life/liberty/freedom

2. Seeing the world for the shades of gray that exist with all their nuance with a general feeling of well-being and minimal threat.