Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
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944s were NEVER air cooled, come on. That's a pretty basic fact to get wrong when giving expert advice on choosing an oil for one.
Fair enough. But I never worked on a 944, only a few 911s of friends and employers in the 1990s.
Secondly, I never gave any "expert advice." I only stated what I would do personally and at the end of your post, I don't think we're that far apart. So I think thou doth protest too much..
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After unsuccessfully shopping for a nice 951 (944 Turbo) I had a 968 for 5 years before my BITOG days. 968s are the evolution of the 944, with an NA 3.0L I4 with variable valve timing and variable induction geometry. I ran the M1 15W50 of the day, because everyone told me I needed it. In the "shoulder" seasons it was rediculously thick on startup. In late fall, I could start the car around freezing, shut it down and the oil pressure gauge would slowly fall over 5 seconds.
Um, there's a guy here that ran M1 15W-50 year round in his Chevy Cavalier 2.2 OHV and put well over 100K on it. I doubt M1 15W-50, with a pour point lower than many conventional 5W-30s, is going to be "'rediculously' thick on start-up". Nor did I ever advocate running 15W-50 year round...
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After running M1 0W40 for years in the BMW I had at the same time (and still have), and after reading Porsche's recommendation to use it in all model years I tried it in the last OCI before I sold the 968. It completely changed the character - quieter, less shaking and fighting the oil on cold startup, more power, only slightly lower hot idle oil pressure (1.5 bar)
Okay. All difficult to quantify, but okay...
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If I knew then what I know now, I would probably run 15W40 HDEO dino (I didn't put on that many miles in a season) with UOAs to confirm things are OK. If I felt some need for syn on a summer-only NA car I'd run 5W40. If I tracked it regularly, then I might be looking at 50 weight syns. With a turbo I'd be on the fence about using a syn HDEO.
Bottom line, I think the 50 weight was too heavy for the street. The 968 and the 951 (which is the 944 Turbo) both have oil-to-air coolers as well. I would never put 20W50 in one. Remember, diesels which run HDEOs have turbos too. The other 944 variants have oil-to-coolant oil "coolers" if memory serves correctly.
Um, what's the difference between the 15W in a mineral 15W-40 to a synthetic 15W-50 at cold start-up? If you're worried about start-up, then who cares if it's equivalent to an SAE 40 or 50 weight at temp?
Secondly, air-cooled, water-cooled, turbo, naturally aspirated--we're still talking about cars manufactured in the early 1980s in an era that generally recommended thicker oil to compensate for poorer base oil qualities and deficiencies in engine design...
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944s were NEVER air cooled, come on. That's a pretty basic fact to get wrong when giving expert advice on choosing an oil for one.
Fair enough. But I never worked on a 944, only a few 911s of friends and employers in the 1990s.
Secondly, I never gave any "expert advice." I only stated what I would do personally and at the end of your post, I don't think we're that far apart. So I think thou doth protest too much..
Quote:
After unsuccessfully shopping for a nice 951 (944 Turbo) I had a 968 for 5 years before my BITOG days. 968s are the evolution of the 944, with an NA 3.0L I4 with variable valve timing and variable induction geometry. I ran the M1 15W50 of the day, because everyone told me I needed it. In the "shoulder" seasons it was rediculously thick on startup. In late fall, I could start the car around freezing, shut it down and the oil pressure gauge would slowly fall over 5 seconds.
Um, there's a guy here that ran M1 15W-50 year round in his Chevy Cavalier 2.2 OHV and put well over 100K on it. I doubt M1 15W-50, with a pour point lower than many conventional 5W-30s, is going to be "'rediculously' thick on start-up". Nor did I ever advocate running 15W-50 year round...
Quote:
After running M1 0W40 for years in the BMW I had at the same time (and still have), and after reading Porsche's recommendation to use it in all model years I tried it in the last OCI before I sold the 968. It completely changed the character - quieter, less shaking and fighting the oil on cold startup, more power, only slightly lower hot idle oil pressure (1.5 bar)
Okay. All difficult to quantify, but okay...
Quote:
If I knew then what I know now, I would probably run 15W40 HDEO dino (I didn't put on that many miles in a season) with UOAs to confirm things are OK. If I felt some need for syn on a summer-only NA car I'd run 5W40. If I tracked it regularly, then I might be looking at 50 weight syns. With a turbo I'd be on the fence about using a syn HDEO.
Bottom line, I think the 50 weight was too heavy for the street. The 968 and the 951 (which is the 944 Turbo) both have oil-to-air coolers as well. I would never put 20W50 in one. Remember, diesels which run HDEOs have turbos too. The other 944 variants have oil-to-coolant oil "coolers" if memory serves correctly.
Um, what's the difference between the 15W in a mineral 15W-40 to a synthetic 15W-50 at cold start-up? If you're worried about start-up, then who cares if it's equivalent to an SAE 40 or 50 weight at temp?
Secondly, air-cooled, water-cooled, turbo, naturally aspirated--we're still talking about cars manufactured in the early 1980s in an era that generally recommended thicker oil to compensate for poorer base oil qualities and deficiencies in engine design...
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