0W-16 Oil....... Really ??

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
In other words Valvoline says it makes no difference what weight you run.


The only problem with that is Valvoline does not warranty the vehicle, Toyota does. So they set the rules.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Relax, Toyota's warranty is short, so you can use 5w30 right after it expires

But 0w16 is not expensive. For example, AAP/Carquest has the CQ house brand 0w16 for the same price as the other grades. You can often get the 5 quarts and filter deal for $25 or so.

The good news is that the A25A doesn't seem to use a cartridge filter. It uses a regular oil filter. Although they spec the shorty filter, you can use the longer 7317/57356 size

 

[Snagglefoot]

My biggest concern is the SAE is running out of numbers. Were already at zero!

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Toyota allows for fit for purpose viscosity selection. The engines are tolerant of a broad range of viscosities, as long as they are appropriate for the climate(cold start mostly).

The problem with viscosity is simply over stating the importance of it.
If you think it is better running thicker grades for tougher service conditions as Toyota recommends, go for it. if you think the one oil viscosity fits all approach is satisfactory, don’t lose any sleep about it. Your car or truck folks. No one can make you do anything you don’t have buy in on.
You are not going to lose your warranty or wear out the engine inappropriately early going either way as long as you use the recommended service intervals and quality of product.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Upper LH corner ... 0W-16 Q&A with Pennzoil.

 

[PimTac]

The same posters squawking about thin oil were squawking when engine blocks changed from cast iron to aluminium, from carburetor to fuel injection, from bias ply to radial tires.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: PimTac
The same posters squawking about thin oil were squawking when engine blocks changed from cast iron to aluminium, from carburetor to fuel injection, from bias ply to radial tires.


really ?

Don't see much squawking..except for the defensive ones.

 

[JLTD]

Originally Posted By: PimTac
The same posters squawking about thin oil were squawking when engine blocks changed from cast iron to aluminium, from carburetor to fuel injection, from bias ply to radial tires.



Hope that's not me as I'm still on the fence about thinner oils for all applications, and think they're appropriate for some vehicles and situations.

To me, it's a shame that the engineers can't decide what specification goes into the manual in the US without government intervention.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: PimTac
The same posters squawking about thin oil were squawking when engine blocks changed from cast iron to aluminium, from carburetor to fuel injection, from bias ply to radial tires.


really ?

Don't see much squawking..except for the defensive ones.


Most of what he said occurred before BITOG was. 20-25 years ago.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: PimTac
The same posters squawking about thin oil were squawking when engine blocks changed from cast iron to aluminium, from carburetor to fuel injection, from bias ply to radial tires.


really ?

Don't see much squawking..except for the defensive ones.


Most of what he said occurred before BITOG was. 20-25 years ago.




I guess I’m dating myself here.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Actually, I noticed when 5-30 came out, some people said you should use 10-40. Now, with 0-20 out, some people are saying you should use 5-30. With 0-16, they say you should use 5-20. The beat goes on!


It's almost is if whatever you do, DO NOT use what the manufacturer recommends! Even if you're just a little bit off, you'll sleep much better at night.


If we follow this line of reasoning to its logical conclusion, then most of us are amiss in not running a 20W-50.
There is also the typical logical fallacy that it's all about CAFE.
It's really about competitive advantage as well as the customer's wallet, both of which benefit from improved fuel economy.
Finally, any road vehicle is in the process of wearing out every mile that you drive it and every year that you own it. The thing is, the engine is typically not the part that causes vehicle retirement regardless of oil grade used.
The engine may not be the weak link in a cheap econobox that starts falling apart after 7-8 years and isn't worth fixing or rust buckets in the rust belt. With pickup trucks down South the engine is certainly a consideration since those vehicles can be on the road for decades.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Actually, I noticed when 5-30 came out, some people said you should use 10-40. Now, with 0-20 out, some people are saying you should use 5-30. With 0-16, they say you should use 5-20. The beat goes on!


It's almost is if whatever you do, DO NOT use what the manufacturer recommends! Even if you're just a little bit off, you'll sleep much better at night.


If we follow this line of reasoning to its logical conclusion, then most of us are amiss in not running a 20W-50.
There is also the typical logical fallacy that it's all about CAFE.
It's really about competitive advantage as well as the customer's wallet, both of which benefit from improved fuel economy.
Finally, any road vehicle is in the process of wearing out every mile that you drive it and every year that you own it. The thing is, the engine is typically not the part that causes vehicle retirement regardless of oil grade used.
The engine may not be the weak link in a cheap econobox that starts falling apart after 7-8 years and isn't worth fixing or rust buckets in the rust belt. With pickup trucks down South the engine is certainly a consideration since those vehicles can be on the road for decades.


Here in the Southwest, the age of vehicles is quite astounding! Driveline and suspension are important to keep up with. As the body and frames will last 5 decades easy.

 

[Silverado12]

FWIW I read a commentary from Amsoil about Ford going to 5W-20 back in the early 2000s. They said the only reason was for fuel economy and although Amsoil makes that grade oil they preferred 5w30. That being said, I use what the book says to use and don't worry about it. Unless the car or truck sees severe service or racing I doubt it makes much difference.

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: JLTD
Originally Posted By: PimTac
The same posters squawking about thin oil were squawking when engine blocks changed from cast iron to aluminium, from carburetor to fuel injection, from bias ply to radial tires.



Hope that's not me as I'm still on the fence about thinner oils for all applications, and think they're appropriate for some vehicles and situations.

To me, it's a shame that the engineers can't decide what specification goes into the manual in the US without government intervention.


Let's slay this myth once again. It seems to keep coming back from the dead like a zombie.
A manufacturer may recommend a preferred grade, this being the one used in the EPA emissions cycle tests from which the fuel economy ratings are derived.
A maker may then also recommend alternative grades, as Toyota does in indicating in their OMs that a thicker grade might be desirable under certain conditions.
The OM of our '09 Forester, a model well into the CAFE age, recommends 5w30 as the preferred grade, that being the grade used in the EPA certification testing. The OM goes on to provide a temp/visc chart allowing for a variety of grades to including 10W-40 and then also allows for the use of SAE 30, SAE 40 or 20W-50 under severe conditions.
Subaru apparently no longer places much trust in their owners or their dealers since the only grade recommended for our '17 is 0W-20, although one can infer from the suggested add oils that thicker grades may be used.
I suspect that the reason that many US market OMs recommend but one grade is related to the makers not trusting their hapless owners or their unscrupulous dealers to make a reasonable grade selection for the temperature range following an oil change.
I've shown that it isn't a matter of government intervention.

 

[Silverado12]

Amsoil commentary

I can't find the article I read in the early 2000s, but here's some commentary about this subject.

 

[PimTac]

Perhaps it can be said with certainty that the 0w20 oils have greatly improved since their introduction?

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Let's slay this myth once again. It seems to keep coming back from the dead like a zombie.
A manufacturer may recommend a preferred grade, this being the one used in the EPA emissions cycle tests from which the fuel economy ratings are derived.
A maker may then also recommend alternative grades, as Toyota does in indicating in their OMs that a thicker grade might be desirable under certain conditions.


Here's what the EPA told Honda...

https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=14177&flag=1

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Let's slay this myth once again. It seems to keep coming back from the dead like a zombie.
A manufacturer may recommend a preferred grade, this being the one used in the EPA emissions cycle tests from which the fuel economy ratings are derived.
A maker may then also recommend alternative grades, as Toyota does in indicating in their OMs that a thicker grade might be desirable under certain conditions.


Here's what the EPA told Honda...

https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=14177&flag=1


These are facts. Coercion for financial incentive(“meet them or be fined “ CAFE)is not design engineer recommendations. It is the automakers trying to survive financially.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Patman
That doesn't always mean that they are right. People always point to the fact that in Europe and Australia the same cars use heavier weight oils but part of it is the fact that those people just don't embrace the thinner oils at all, so stores don't carry it.


Here's a map that Honda developed, and published in some of their papers.

It's their "reliability guarantee" map for different driving styles/markets...Load versus RPM...Chart is cumulative frequency.

It's use was to ensure that the durability of the engines was maintained for their respective markets.



Firstly RPM makes oil heat load far less...and as can be seen, the vast majority of the measured US driving is under low heating conditions...the Autobahn a lot more RPM...

maybe, just maybe, the different recommendations are due to the different driving conditions in the different markets, not just that we are dumb and hard to change. And thus the changes in recommendations for the corvette.

 

[PimTac]

Shannon, what are the kegs speed limits in Australia? Urban freeways and outback highways.

Thanks for that chart.