07 Nissan Xterra 4400 on oil - pennzoil platinum 5w30

[skiller1nc]

This is my daily, has 179k miles. gets about 80% city and 20% highway miles. I drive it hard. I've always done 10k oil changes with pennzoil platinum or ultra platinum looks like I have been using plat high milage - just whichever I grabbed bc they look similar. I keep up with all maintenance and overall I've not had any issues. No oil burning or anything to note. valve covers are starting to seep so I may get to look underneath and see how the levels of varnish or sludge are when I do decide to replace them. Recently I've been working on my other car (2002 avalon) at trying to clean up some sludge and varnish on it with hpl and frequent oil changes so I decided at this point in its life the xterra may benefit from some 5k oil changes. Thus why I sent this UOA for the 4400 mile oil.


main concern is why that TBN is so low after only 4400 miles and that I still think iron/lead/tin are higher than I would like. I know its only 2 UOAs so not much to see trend wise and on the 4400 mile UOA the wear metals are about half which makes sense for the oil interval being half as long. overall though what do you all think?

 

[JavierH19]

Regular Pennzoil platinum isn't meant for extended drains. I'd suggest you use just about any 0/5w-40 or 15w-40 for your application since those can do longer drains and control deposits along with providing more protection.

 

[skiller1nc]

Regular Pennzoil platinum isn't meant for extended drains. I'd suggest you use just about any 0/5w-40 or 15w-40 for your application since those can do longer drains and control deposits along with providing more protection.

why do you say platinum isn't meant for extended drains? all 3, plat, high milage plat, and ultra plat say 15k miles. obviously marketing plays a role there but it seems to me Pennzoil is marketing this as an extended interval oil.

Also what effect is swapping oil viscosity going to do for me? 5w30 is the manufacturer-recommended spec, I don't see a reason to deviate from it?

Also after looking at my UOA and some VOA I think the oil used was plat high milage.

 

[JavierH19]

why do you say platinum isn't meant for extended drains? all 3, plat, high milage plat, and ultra plat say 15k miles. obviously marketing plays a role there but it seems to me Pennzoil is marketing this as an extended interval oil.

Also what effect is swapping oil viscosity going to do for me? 5w30 is the manufacturer-recommended spec, I don't see a reason to deviate from it?

Prior uoa's of it on here show why. Euro oils don't advertise any drain intervals but they can do 15k better than Pennzoil platinum will do at 15k oxidation and acidity wise. Still wouldn't recommend 15k on a euro oil in your case.

 

[fantastic]

Your Fe is fine IMO. Your bearings (Tin) are showing some minor wear which is fine at your mileage & use style. You could try 5w-40 from this point on & continue 10k intervals so long as the tests show okay.

 

[himemsys]

looks like I have been using plat high milage

main concern is why that TBN is so low after only 4400 miles

I know PP High Mileage has a low starting TBN: roughly 5.1 if I remember correctly. That probably has something to do with it along with the fact that you drive it hard and only 20% of your driving is on the highway.

I believe PPHM oxidation starts at 5 or 6. So your 15 oxidation does show some life left on this oil. Oil Analyzers says you can go +17 points on starting oxidation before the oil starts being considered used up. You've only gone +9 to +10.

 

[JavierH19]

I know PP High Mileage has a low starting TBN: roughly 5.1 if I remember correctly. That probably has something to do with it along with the fact that you drive it hard and only 20% of your driving is on the highway.

I believe PPHM oxidation starts at 5 or 6. So your 15 oxidation does show some life left on this oil. Oil Analyzers says you can go +17 points on starting oxidation before the oil starts being considered used up. You've only gone +9 to +10.

true but at 4,400mi it's still not great for him. Hasn't thickened yet but i could imagine the oxidative thickening at that long interval with his driving. A bit of thickening is fine sure but it would increase a lot.

 

[skiller1nc]

true but at 4,400mi it's still not great for him. Hasn't thickened yet but i could imagine the oxidative thickening at that long interval with his driving. A bit of thickening is fine sure but it would increase a lot.

yeah and honestly this things about to get some good treatment. my commute is going up to 64 miles daily all interstate so it's going to get some miles on it from here on. and with it then being almost 90% highway miles I will probably try to stretch intervals back to 10k

 

[SC Maintenance]

No expert here, but I own 2 of these engines. So two notes:

I thought TBN in these newer oils were not the indicator they used to be?

These engines have long and complex timing chains, hence oil shear is common. This is why I run short OCI. However if you want to run longer for sure go up to a 5w-40 (I am running that in my Frontier now) or go shorter OCI.

The fuel dilution surprises me on this engine as well - I don't think thats common with these? Lots of recent short trips?

 

[JavierH19]

yeah and honestly this things about to get some good treatment. my commute is going up to 64 miles daily all interstate so it's going to get some miles on it from here on. and with it then being almost 90% highway miles I will probably try to stretch intervals back to 10k

Even if your driving style changes for the better there's still zero reason to use PP when you can order much better QS euro 5w-40 for less than PP and have it shipped to your door for free on top of that as it's popular in store and almost always out of stock while everything else is stocked. I don't know how cold it gets in your area but if it doesn't get cold you can use 15w-40 as well which is what I also use.

Robot or human?

 

[skiller1nc]

No expert here, but I own 2 of these engines. So two notes:

I thought TBN in these newer oils were not the indicator they used to be?

These engines have long and complex timing chains, hence oil shear is common. This is why I run short OCI. However if you want to run longer for sure go up to a 5w-40 (I am running that in my Frontier now) or go shorter OCI.

The fuel dilution surprises me on this engine as well - I don't think thats common with these? Lots of recent short trips?

Yep. Lots of short quick trips. I'm also aware of the timing chains/guides, I'm in the year that is effected by the guides wearing out but im hoping that since I made it to 180k without an issue that I'll be alright. I don't want to pull this apart to replace them.

 

[twX]

main concern is why that TBN is so low after only 4400 miles and that I still think iron/lead/tin are higher than I would like.

When comparing a short OCI with a previous long OCI, you need to keep in mind that 15-20% of the oil in the engine is from the previous fill, which still has a lot of metal in it. Iron and lead probably started at around 6 ppm and 3-4 ppm respectively after the oil change. With this in mind, wear per mile is looking better than it was on the long OCI, especially the lead. The TBN would be affected a bit by this as well.

I wouldn't go over 5k miles on this oil. PUP has more additives and should hold up a bit longer. A Euro 5W-30 should hold up even longer, and the higher viscosity would be appropriate for all the hard driving you do.

 

[SC Maintenance]

When comparing a short OCI with a previous long OCI, you need to keep in mind that 15-20% of the oil in the engine is from the previous fill, which still has a lot of metal in it. Iron and lead probably started at around 6 ppm and 3-4 ppm respectively after the oil change. With this in mind, wear per mile is looking better than it was on the long OCI, especially the lead. The TBN would be affected a bit by this as well.

I wouldn't go over 5k miles on this oil. PUP has more additives and should hold up a bit longer. A Euro 5W-30 should hold up even longer, and the higher viscosity would be appropriate for all the hard driving you do.

15% on a VQ40 would be a 0.81 quarts. I can assure you when you drain this engine you get almost the full spec out. Spec is 5.4 quarts. I get well over 5 quarts plus whatever is in the filter still plus whatever is used or burned during the run - I never have to use make up oil. So I can not say your wrong about other engines, but I am sure on this one you are.

Now if you say the metal congregates in the pump or bottom of the pan or something - that is beyond my pay grade.

 

[skiller1nc]

15% on a VQ40 would be a 0.81 quarts on a VQ40. I can assure you when you drain this engine you get almost the full spec out. Spec is 5.4 quarts. I get well over 5 quarts plus whatever is in the filter still plus whatever is used or burned during the run - I never have to use make up oil. So I can not say your wrong about other engines, but I am sure on this one you are.

Now if you say the metal congregates in the pump or bottom of the pan or something - that is beyond my pay grade.

Yeah I agree, I get about 5.5 qts out when I drain if you count filter too. And that's pretty much exactly what I add back to have the dipstick to the full line. Idk how much the vq40 can hold when it's completely dry, I assume it may be more than 5.37 or whatever the exact spec is.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Yeah I agree, I get about 5.5 qts out when I drain if you count filter too. And that's pretty much exactly what I add back to have the dipstick to the full line. Idk how much the vq40 can hold when it's completely dry, I assume it may be more than 5.37 or whatever the exact spec is.

I am pretty sure factory spec is all the oil, but I am sure someone here will clarify if I am wrong.

On the VQ the drain hole is in fact at the very, very bottom lowest point of the pan (unlike my Toyota which is very annoying BTW). Also the filter is at the bottom of the block so when you pull it you empty the galleries - that is why so much comes out, and Nissan was nice enough to put that little funnel thingy under the filter, which sort of works if your patient.

That leaves stuff stuck still in the head on the top end and whatever is in the pump. I doubt that is 15% but I do learn stuff every day.

 

[twX]

15% on a VQ40 would be a 0.81 quarts on a VQ40. I can assure you when you drain this engine you get almost the full spec out. Spec is 5.4 quarts. I get well over 5 quarts plus whatever is in the filter still plus whatever is used or burned during the run - I never have to use make up oil. So I can not say your wrong about other engines, but I am sure on this one you are.

Now if you say the metal congregates in the pump or bottom of the pan or something - that is beyond my pay grade.

I'm referring to the oil that remains in the engine after draining the sump, which the 5.4 qt spec doesn't account for.

Usually in the service manual, you'll find a separate spec for oil capacity for a dry engine after a rebuild. On my Subaru for instance, the spec for an oil and filter change is 5.1 L, while the oil capacity spec for after a rebuild is 6.0 L. An oil change still leaves almost a litre of old oil in the engine, or 15% of the total oil capacity.

 

[skiller1nc]

I am pretty sure factory spec is all the oil, but I am sure someone here will clarify if I am wrong.

On the VQ the drain hole is in fact at the very, very bottom lowest point of the pan (unlike my Toyota which is very annoying BTW). Also the filter is at the bottom of the block so when you pull it you empty the galleries - that is why so much comes out, and Nissan was nice enough to put that little funnel thingy under the filter, which sort of works if your patient.

That leaves stuff stuck still in the head on the top end and whatever is in the pump. I doubt that is 15% but I do learn stuff every day.

Manual says 5.1 liters with filter change. 6.3 liters to fill a dry rebuild.

 

[OneLonelyBurrito]

With new oil TBN is less of a concern and the focus should be more on oxidation and nitration.

Based on the latest UOA, it looks like the oil is holding up. Wear metals are inline, and oxidation and nitration are still low enough to extend the OCI. 10K might be a touch too far with lots of short trips, but also don't think its gonna hurt the life of the engine.