04 toyota sienna, valvoline all climate 5w30, 3694mi

[ufbbc]

I had the air filter changed this interval and treated with chevron techron fuel syst cleaner. No oil added. Blackstone did the analysis, 24,437mi on van, 3694mi OCI:

code:

---

this, last

Al 2, 3

Chr 0, 0

Fe 3, 7

Cu 0, 1

Pb 0, 1

Tin 0, 1

Moly 54, 109

Ni 0, 0

Mang 0, 0

Silv 0, 0

Ti 0, 0

K 2, 0

Bor 10, 31

Si 15, 36

Na 0, 2

Ca 1653, 1753

Magn 7, 0

Pho 573, 689

Zn 639, 834

Bar 0, 0

---

vis 56.9, flash 375, fuel
Comments paraphrased: Nice imp in wear/Si. If you did not change filter it was sealant washing out. Wear looks great. These engines may outlast all of us on planet. Oil held up well physically. Visc OK and no fuel, moisture or antif. TBN 1.2 low. We consider 1.0 to be low. Think you can go longer next time.

This is me - Huh?

[ September 21, 2005, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]

 

[Pablo]

You have essentially no wear - but it was a short interval.

The oil appeared to thin/shear (what is starting vis?) and the TBN is really shot, for such a very short interval.

 

[drums57]

A lot of people on this site think Valvoline is junk ,,,,,, yea right.

 

[The Critic]

This is the 3.3L, 230HP V-6, which is based on the 3.0L, 210HP V-6 and is very hard on oil because of the high cylinder temperatures.

The oil was simply eaten up by this engine, I'd consider trying a more robust oil, such as Havoline 5w-30 SM and test again between 3-4K.

What oil are you running right now?

Michael

 

[drums57]

This report proves that adding a bottle of techron wil not affect your wear metals. IMO Techron is the best fuel system cleaner available, another great product from Chevron/Havoline.

 

[Pablo]

Why has no one mentioned the viscosity or the TBN?

 

[fuel tanker man]

I think the main thing to look at is the wear metals. Phenominal.

The oil has worked, and worked well. For 3500 mile OCI's you couldn't ask for more protection.

Some oils do shear early on, and then stabilize. Yeah, it's a 20 weight--but just look at that twenty go!

Dan

 

[farrarfan1]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pablo:
Why has no one mentioned the viscosity or the TBN?

---

I'll take a stab at it. Isn't a 5W30 dino shearing back to 20W considered "normal"? Most 5W and 10W30's seem to do it. As long as it's Pennzoil or Havoline/Chevron it doesn't seem to matter because they are evryone's favorites.The TBN is pretty low, but what does it start out as?

 

[Pablo]

It does seem many petro oils do shear - maybe this IS a good thing - look how great the 20's do!

I agree the wear numbers are good! I was not trying to be critical, but in my usual defensive mode, if this was M1 or Slamsoil, people would be on it like white on rice for changing grades.

We just all need to remember one grade change up or down is not the end of the world, and is allowed by some of the more famous agencies.

NOt sure what the TBN starts at, but 1.2 after 3700 miles seems low.

 

[farrarfan1]

I went back and found the last UOA he listed under "last" on this one. The TBN showed 0.0 after 4800 miles on All Climate 5W30. Like Michael said maybe this oil is brutal on oil.

There'also an old one from 03 on German Castrol with a TBN of 3.4 @ 4600 miles.

 

[Pablo]

I believe Michael is correct - just another reason dino and 5K in some Toyotas can lead to....sludge

 

[JohnBrowning]

This engine would not generate high wear metals if you ran value craft oil in it for this short of an interval. THe wear metals are low due to the engine design and material.

The viscosity, low flash point and low TBN are all issues. Part of the viscosity issue is the gear driven cam shafts in this enigne but the rest of the issues are all oil based. This oil is spent. Valvoline is junk becasue it can not last much more then 3600 miles in this application. No oil should fall apart this quickly. I bet that Havoline,Chevron Supreme,Delo and Mobil 7500 would all hold up better. I think he should try Mobil 5000 or 7500 10W40.

 

[T-Keith]

Wear is low, but the TBN isn't good, so extending the OCI wouldn't be a good idea. I wouldn't mark this up as a win for Valvoline.

-T

 

[The Critic]

quote:

---

Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
I think he should try Mobil 5000 or 7500 10W40.

---

10w-40? You must be on drugs!

Yes, a different oil, but NOT a different viscosity; obviously a 5w-30 is doing very well in this engine despite the shearing and there is no need to move up in viscosity.

I do agree with you that a more robust oil should be used.

Perhaps we can compromise John, 10w-30?

Michael

 

[slider]

Originally posted by Michael Wan:
10w-40? You must be on drugs!

***

Going thicker than a 30W in this application is a mistake. This engine runs high head temperatures and you want flow to help with cooling and keep potential coking to a minimum.

The 'thicker is better' mantra is just silly.

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

Go with Mobil-1 for 5K-6K and resample. Change that PCV valve early and often!

 

[Bill]

quote:

---

posted by Pablo
I agree the wear numbers are good! I was not trying to be critical, but in my usual defensive mode, if this was M1 or Slamsoil, people would be on it like white on rice for changing grades.
We just all need to remember one grade change up or down is not the end of the world, and is allowed by some of the more famous agencies.

---

I agree with you Pablo,
If you look at the UOAs where an oil thickened which some point a finger at, the wear metals are fine.

 

[TooSlick]

Wear numbers are excellent, but this lubricant is significantly depleted after 3.7k miles. I'd cut back to 3k in order to provide more TBN reserve. This will help to minimize high temp deposits, which are the key concern in this application.

Even the best 6-8 TBN conventional lube is not going to last very long in this environment. What happens here is the lubricant thins rapidly due to the thermo-mechanical loads, then it thickens rapidly and eventually "gels" due to accelerated nitration and oxidation.

I would not be surprised to see Toyota become the next major vehicle manufacturer to start recommending ACEA, "A5/B5" quality, synthetic lubes for all their next generation engines. This would allow them to double their current service recommendation and allow more flexibility in engine design.

 

[Starbreaker666]

Looks like Valvo did a fine job... I knew there was a reason I always liked and used Valvo. With numbers like that for a 3700 mile OCI who cares if it sheared to a 20wt. Obviously did not matter in this motor or my UOA's (posted here) on my former Dodge Ram. Good job Valvoline.

 

[ufbbc]

I am still running Valvoline all climate 5w30. I know better is out there but the shop I use changes oil & filter for $10-12 with coupon using Valvoline & parts master filter (arvin meritor (sp?) which is purolator). I tried twice a year (toyota says it is OK - 6750mi I think) and the TBN was 0 so I have gone to 3x per year (with her it will be 4 mos, not miles). I change the oil in my truck myself, but trying to do her car also is too much.

Blackstone says my SUS visc should be 54-61 and it is (56.9). What is the issue?

By the way I have Mobil 7500 in my GM 5.3 right now at 6000mi, going to 7k or so and will post the results of that analysis. I have a previous analysis with the Valvoline (before I knew better) in my 5.3 on here too. I went from Valv to Motorcraft syn blend to mobil 7500.