'04 Odyssey Purchase - Might have been taken...

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11,660
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Given that they all die due to premature transmission death, there should be lots and lots of good used engines available pretty cheap for this vehicle. Is it still cost and labor effective to do HG and valve job on the engine instead of just swapping a used low mileage engine in it? Can machine shop also adjust the valves while they have the head with them or all the assemblies are off the head when they get it? I am not sure if OP has ran the test strip test on his vehicle yet. I also wonder if he is still smelling the anti freeze. IF it were burning, he will NOT be smelling it. Has he run the leak down and compression tests yet? And or put the cooling system pressure test? May be he has done all that and then decided that it needs HG but otherwise he is jumping the gun.
 
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25,971
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MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted By: Vikas
I am not sure if OP has ran the test strip test on his vehicle yet.
Depending on the leak that may or may not be of benefit. If exhaust gases are getting into the coolant then yes but if its a crack near the guides or in the valve pocket area probably not (just one example). Pulling a plug and having steam coming out along with loosing coolant is a pretty good sign something is wrong i would say. LOL
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Can machine shop also adjust the valves while they have the head with them or all the assemblies are off the head when they get it?
Of course, its an OHC engine with adjustable valve train.
Originally Posted By: Vikas
There should be lots and lots of good used engines available pretty cheap for this vehicle. Is it still cost and labor effective to do HG and valve job on the engine instead of just swapping a used low mileage engine in it?
Debatable. These engines have a pretty sturdy and tight bottom end and the gaskets are easy enough to do. He said it runs well and the compression doesn't look horrible, it should be a good engine when done. Time to do both heads is about 9 hrs and about 12 hrs to R&R the engine (est). Cost to do the heads inc machine shop and parts about $700. Can you get a good used engine for that for this one? would you prefer a used one or a good engine with rebuilt heads and gaskets? Not my decision, i just fix em. Unless an engine is totally shot and needs a full rebuild i prefer to repair them, i know what i have after. I threw an otherwise mint 05 or 06 Touring in the junkyard because it needed a complete drive train and both power side door repair along with a nav screen and a few other things. It was a beautiful shell and leather interior but not much else. I had a feeling something like this or the tranny was going to happen when he first posted about buying this thing but its too late now.
 
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MA, Mittelfranken.de
Its probably going to but what is the alternative? Junk it. Done that before. IMHO Fix the engine, baby the tranny and cross that bridge when he comes to it.
 
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new jersey
Originally Posted By: Trav
Its probably going to but what is the alternative? Junk it. Done that before. IMHO Fix the engine, baby the tranny and cross that bridge when he comes to it.
That's true, either decision is going to cost mucho $$.
 
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11,660
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Wow, it will cost him $700 even if he does all the work himself? Never knew parts and machine shops were that expensive! Budget another 3K for trans rebuild when it is needed and then evaluate if adding $3700 in this vehicle will get him another 5 years of good vehicle
 
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25,971
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MA, Mittelfranken.de
To redo each head, valve grind, planing, etc + pressure testing approx $200ea. Gaskets OE about $200, coolant, oil and other incidentals another $100. If it needs a timing belt add for that. It goes up quick. With a used engine doing a timing belt kit, plugs and valve adjustment would be prudent.
 
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35,696
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NY
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: Vikas
I am not sure if OP has ran the test strip test on his vehicle yet.
Depending on the leak that may or may not be of benefit. If exhaust gases are getting into the coolant then yes but if its a crack near the guides or in the valve pocket area probably not (just one example). Pulling a plug and having steam coming out along with loosing coolant is a pretty good sign something is wrong i would say. LOL
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Can machine shop also adjust the valves while they have the head with them or all the assemblies are off the head when they get it?
Of course, its an OHC engine with adjustable valve train.
Originally Posted By: Vikas
There should be lots and lots of good used engines available pretty cheap for this vehicle. Is it still cost and labor effective to do HG and valve job on the engine instead of just swapping a used low mileage engine in it?
Debatable. These engines have a pretty sturdy and tight bottom end and the gaskets are easy enough to do. He said it runs well and the compression doesn't look horrible, it should be a good engine when done. Time to do both heads is about 9 hrs and about 12 hrs to R&R the engine (est). Cost to do the heads inc machine shop and parts about $700. Can you get a good used engine for that for this one? would you prefer a used one or a good engine with rebuilt heads and gaskets? Not my decision, i just fix em. Unless an engine is totally shot and needs a full rebuild i prefer to repair them, i know what i have after. I threw an otherwise mint 05 or 06 Touring in the junkyard because it needed a complete drive train and both power side door repair along with a nav screen and a few other things. It was a beautiful shell and leather interior but not much else. I had a feeling something like this or the tranny was going to happen when he first posted about buying this thing but its too late now.
Agreed, the last thing I'd do is take a junkyard engine, unless I knew the car the engine came from. I'd rather fix what I have unless it is totally blown. The only exception would be a classic car where numbers have to match to retain value.
 
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11,660
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Paul, Yes, $700 for parts is perfectly reasonable when broken down. I just re-read the OP's first post and this van only had 136K on it. Are these engines known to have head-gasket problems, especially at this low miles? Can some external factor cause this? I am also little bit surprised with the used car warranty NOT covering head-gasket repair. Doesn't it come under "drive train" warranty? Was it explicitly stated in sales receipt?
 
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25,971
Location
MA, Mittelfranken.de
These are generally good engines, overheating it can and does damage them like any other. HG failures are IMHO about average, some claim it to be a larger issue but i don't see it too often. Why, when and how badly it overheated is anybodies guess but i strongly suspect that being the cause of either the HG failure or crack. Small cracks are IMO probably just as or even more common. The cracks can happen internal and external on the head, external ones behind the exhaust manifolds, the external ones tend to leak oil. Always, always get these heads tested when something like this occurs. They can many times be fixed without too much cost and trouble by either pinning or TIG welding. With these and all other engines using electric fans the cooling system must me maintained to a higher level (not suggesting older belt driven fan engines should not be maintained). Make sure both fans (when equipped) come on when they are supposed to, defective fan(s), bad thermostats, neglected coolant, blocked radiator fins, bad relays, blown fuses, iffy temp sensors can and do cause problems which can lead to overheating and problems like this one seems to be having. This issue needs to be checked and resolved if it hasn't been already when the engine is replaced or repaired to prevent it happening again. With a used car who knows? These are basic to all modern engines but some engines are more sensitive to them. Some like some VW engines have a habit of overheating due to broken plastic water pump impeller failure and are also know for electric fan and module failure. Knowing the engines weak spots can go a long way in preventing a potentially engine damaging episode. Block and head porosity is another issue with the ones of this vintage. This usually presents itself in the form of an oil leak that no one can find. Dye in the oil testing on a clean engine and heads usually finds it though and the old GM tranny and porous N* block fix works real well. JB weld after draining the oil, roughing it up with a die grinder and cleaning it thoroughly. Still on the bright side of this and IMHO there is one. The engine is basically a sound and good engine with not a whole lot of miles on it, good compression. Good starting material. A good top end job with new gaskets, newly ground valves and valve adjustment should provide many more years of useful life for not a whole lot of $$. Just some random thoughts and 2cents
 

92saturnsl2

Thread starter
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2,852
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Kentucky
Quote:
Still on the bright side of this and IMHO there is one. The engine is basically a sound and good engine with not a whole lot of miles on it, good compression. Good starting material.
Thanks Trav and all you others for the sound advice, it's an enormous help. I should reiterate, perhaps for those that jumped in without reading every post, this is a near-mint vehicle, I'd say as good of shape a ten year old vehicle could possibly be in. I've driven plenty of cars with 20k miles on them and only a couple years old that are not in as good condition as this one. By no means should this thing be headed for the scrap heap. That said, I have no qualms putting some money into it since I got a pretty fair deal to begin with. The warranty was just a bone the dealer threw me to shut me up when I brought up transmission issues common with these cars as a reason they should lower the price even further (I didn't expect they would, as they already had come down substantially from asking price). I didn't give it any thought or look to see what it covered since I wasn't paying for it. On the engine side, it only covers oil lubricated parts, nothing else. So if I were to throw a rod tomorrow, it would be covered. Specifically excludes head gaskets. There's no indication this van would ever turn into a money pit, or that the tranny is on its way out soon. Its VIN falls into the early 2004's before the update, so I'll simply service it well and put some money away should I ever have to do tranny work to it. The head gasket being bad is just one of those things you risk when buying a used car. I've won some, lost some, it's just part of the used car buying game. The upside is that I don't pay a penny in interest when paying cash for vehicles, and I can do most all mechanic work myself which saves a boatload of money. So right now my plan is to do the head gaskets and have the heads gone over. The goal is to get a solid 5 (mostly) trouble-free years out of the thing and I'll be happy. This can hauls the kids around, and I'm way too anal to ever buy something newer so that they can run their hands down the sides (just because they can) and scratch it, spill food and juice on the upholstery. This is a good happy medium- nice sharp ride I can enjoy driving, but not so nice as to worry about every little thing kids will do to it.
 
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Sounds like a great plan. I am sure you will enjoy the vehicle. Nothing beats the minivan for utility and comfort when travelling with family and/or hauling stuff.
 
Messages
25,971
Location
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted By: 92saturnsl2
Quote:
Still on the bright side of this and IMHO there is one. The engine is basically a sound and good engine with not a whole lot of miles on it, good compression. Good starting material.
Thanks Trav and all you others for the sound advice, it's an enormous help. I should reiterate, perhaps for those that jumped in without reading every post, this is a near-mint vehicle, I'd say as good of shape a ten year old vehicle could possibly be in. I've driven plenty of cars with 20k miles on them and only a couple years old that are not in as good condition as this one. By no means should this thing be headed for the scrap heap. Sounds like a plan to me. Let me know if you need FSM info. That said, I have no qualms putting some money into it since I got a pretty fair deal to begin with. The warranty was just a bone the dealer threw me to shut me up when I brought up transmission issues common with these cars as a reason they should lower the price even further (I didn't expect they would, as they already had come down substantially from asking price). I didn't give it any thought or look to see what it covered since I wasn't paying for it. On the engine side, it only covers oil lubricated parts, nothing else. So if I were to throw a rod tomorrow, it would be covered. Specifically excludes head gaskets. There's no indication this van would ever turn into a money pit, or that the tranny is on its way out soon. Its VIN falls into the early 2004's before the update, so I'll simply service it well and put some money away should I ever have to do tranny work to it. The head gasket being bad is just one of those things you risk when buying a used car. I've won some, lost some, it's just part of the used car buying game. The upside is that I don't pay a penny in interest when paying cash for vehicles, and I can do most all mechanic work myself which saves a boatload of money. So right now my plan is to do the head gaskets and have the heads gone over. The goal is to get a solid 5 (mostly) trouble-free years out of the thing and I'll be happy. This can hauls the kids around, and I'm way too anal to ever buy something newer so that they can run their hands down the sides (just because they can) and scratch it, spill food and juice on the upholstery. This is a good happy medium- nice sharp ride I can enjoy driving, but not so nice as to worry about every little thing kids will do to it.
 
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57
Location
Oregon
How did this pan out for you OP? I checked out an old subaru, confirmed a blown head gasket simply by sniffing the overflow tank. I sniffed all 32 of my cars, never had a blown HG :-D I have to admit I bought an 80 Datsun 310GX 1.6 A16 (car #3) with an external HG leak. Minor dribbling. It stayed the same until I traded it in. The carburetor was a whole 'nother can of worms day after I bought it. (Float sunk, major flooding)
 
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456
Location
Seattle WA
A little off topic but a heads up to the OP; just saw a news report on an Airbag system recall which your 2004 Odyssey may be part of - Since you're not the original owner, you may not get notified... probably ought to keep track of this one! Problem Description: Honda is recalling certain model year 2003-2004 Honda Odyssey vehicles manufactured February 13, 2002, to August 13, 2004, and 2003 Acura MDX vehicles manufactured February 21, 2002, to September 23, 2003. Due to electrical noise, a component in the air bag control module may fail, causing the front air bags, side curtain air bags, and/or seatbelt pretensioners to deploy inadvertently while the vehicle is being operated.
 
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