'03 Z06 Corvette 7,955 Miles, RP Racing 21

'03 EB/B Corvette Z06 · Feb 10, 2004

Royal Purple Racing 21 Oil
Mi/Hr on oil - 7,955
Mi/Hr on unit - 9,480
Sample date - 02/01/04

Aluminum - 6
Chromium - 2
Iron - 54
Copper - 558
Lead - 8
Tin - 7
Molybdenum - 104
Nickel - 1
Manganese - 3
Silver - 0
Titanium - 0
Potassium - 4
Boron - 18
Silicon - 69
Sodium - 9
Calcium - 2572
Magnesium - 13
Phosphorus - 813
Zinc - 1375
Barium - 0

Sus Vis@210 - 68.2
Flashpoint - 410
Fuel % - Antifreeze % - 0%
Water % - 0%
Insolubles % - 0.3%

TBN - 2.3

This is the second oil change, the first was the factory Mobil 1 fill. I have a Halltech TRAP intake w/warhead air filter-looks like a K&N but blue. I used a AC Delco UPF44 oil filter and didn't add any make-up oil.

What do you think? The silicon looks high!

Pablo · Feb 10, 2004

This going to sound funny, but the wear metals aside from Cu don't look so bad. Sure Fe is high too, but the car is breaking in.....Si could be high, but again it's a new engine....

Why did you leave the oil in so long?

'03 EB/B Corvette Z06 · Feb 10, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Pablo:
This going to sound funny, but the wear metals aside from Cu don't look so bad. Sure Fe is high too, but the car is breaking in.....Si could be high, but again it's a new engine....

Why did you leave the oil in so long?

I changed it according to the on-board engine monitor. When I changed it, the oil monitor said I had 10% left but I thought it was time to change. I would also think that Royal Purple could easily endure an 8,000 mile oil change. Maybe I'm wrong????

sbc350gearhead · Feb 10, 2004

I agree with pablo. Doesn't look bad at all considering its still breaking in. silicon is probably the RTV used on the engine.........it will drop in future UOA's. This oil looks like it can handle the drain, but it is usually better to change the oil often until the engine is broken in.

Spector · Feb 10, 2004

I asusme that this racing oil is recommended for street use by RP????

regalman · Feb 10, 2004

I personally wouldn't have used the oil life monitor until after it is sufficently broken in. Its pretty obvoius to see that there was lots of metal in there.

After the initial wear metals come down, then I would start extending drain interevals.

Bror Jace · Feb 10, 2004

It’s hard to say for sure, but with just about anything automotive, the word “racing” is a term of art. For some, it means racing–only and others it merely means their top of the line. Have to ask each manufacturer for clarification. I’ve heard both about RP "racing" oils.

This result looks OK for such a fresh engine. With these GM engines, especially new ones, you can ignore the copper before the 15,000 mile mark. That iron looks high … but not for a motor with break-in residue swimming through it. As for silicon, again a new engine is going to have sand from sand-casted parts and residue from fresh gaskets.

I would have gone with around 2,000 miles with a cheaper mineral oil for the first 2-3 changes before attempting a longer drain with something more expensive.

The next result will be more telling ... but will still have wear metals in it from this past interval.

--- Bror Jace

'03 EB/B Corvette Z06 · Feb 11, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Bror Jace:
It’s hard to say for sure, but with just about anything automotive, the word “racing” is a term of art. For some, it means racing–only and others it merely means their top of the line. Have to ask each manufacturer for clarification. I’ve heard both about RP "racing" oils.

This result looks OK for such a fresh engine. With these GM engines, especially new ones, you can ignore the copper before the 15,000 mile mark. That iron looks high … but not for a motor with break-in residue swimming through it. As for silicon, again a new engine is going to have sand from sand-casted parts and residue from fresh gaskets.

I would have gone with around 2,000 miles with a cheaper mineral oil for the first 2-3 changes before attempting a longer drain with something more expensive.

The next result will be more telling ... but will still have wear metals in it from this past interval.

--- Bror Jace

I changed the factory fill of Mobil 1 5w30 at 1525 miles and figured that would be sufficient for the first oil change. How many miles until the motor is 'broken in'? Cost not being an issue, should I change the most recent fill in 2000 miles?
Thanks for all the input so far.

sbc350gearhead · Feb 11, 2004

According to RP, the racing line, has an additive package that is designed to protect the engine first and foremost, therefore not API certified...........But RP says that it has the detergents necessary for a street oil, and does great in that application. Terry seems to think more of the racing line, than the API street line.

Last_Z · Feb 11, 2004

What weight is this oil?

Jelly · Feb 11, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Last_Z:
What weight is this oil?

Similar to a 5w30.

Bror Jace · Feb 11, 2004

"I changed the factory fill of Mobil 1 5W30 at 1,525 miles and figured that would be sufficient for the first oil change. How many miles until the motor is 'broken in'?"

Every engine is a little different. Not sure about current batches of these GM V8s but I wouldn't be worried about any wear metal in a street-driven motor until you've had at least 3 oil changes and 12,000 miles on the motor.

I noticed that Toyotas show elevated silicon all the way out to 20,000 miles, probably from the gaskets. Others have similar idiosyncracies as well. That high initial copper used to be something you saw almost exclusively in these motors but seems to be more common lately.

Anyway, you should see remarkable improvements with your next results assuming you use a similar interval. With this kind of toy, I'd change it more often ... just on principle.

"Cost not being an issue, should I change the most recent fill in 2000 miles?"

You don't have to ... unless you want a really, really clean result the following interval (for further UOA testing).

sbc350gearhead, I'd heard from a few credible sources that RP's racing line was a full synthetic (PAO/ester blend) while the street version was a mineral/synthetic blend.

There was a so-so result on this board using RP racing (or maybe it was just a depleted TBN?) and one poster derided the user for using a "racing" oil in a street driven. This was just one (propbably uninformed) poster but there was some sense to what he was saying. You certainly wouldn't want to use Red Line's racing oils in a street driven car.

The TBN for this sample looks "OK" but I wouldn't go much longer in any vehicle, regardless of what the oil monitor says.

--- Bror Jace

'03 EB/B Corvette Z06 · Feb 12, 2004

"Every engine is a little different. Not sure about current batches of these GM V8s but I wouldn't be worried about any wear metal in a street-driven motor until you've had at least 3 oil changes and 12,000 miles on the motor."

So after 12,000 miles I should be watching wear metals very closely. I'll change the latest fill at 3,000 miles and see what the results are.

"I noticed that Toyotas show elevated silicon all the way out to 20,000 miles, probably from the gaskets. Others have similar idiosyncracies as well. That high initial copper used to be something you saw almost exclusively in these motors but seems to be more common lately."

What causes the high copper content? I would assume bearings, but wouldn't think they would be wearing to that point.

"Anyway, you should see remarkable improvements with your next results assuming you use a similar interval. With this kind of toy, I'd change it more often ... just on principle.

"

I will change it sooner from now on. I thought initially that RP Racing 21 would allow for intervals a little longer than the factory recommended Mobil 1.

I contacted Royal Purple via email and asked about the use of the their racing oils for street cars. They said that the racing 21 is suitable for street driving and would provide an extra level of protection over their street oils.

"You don't have to ... unless you want a really, really clean result the following interval (for further UOA testing)."

I'll change again at 3,000 miles and see what the UOA looks like. I'm switching to Redline 10w-40 after this anyway. It seems that RP doesn't like the LS6.

"sbc350gearhead, I'd heard from a few credible sources that RP's racing line was a full synthetic (PAO/ester blend) while the street version was a mineral/synthetic blend."

I didn't know this. They sure don't advertise it!

"There was a so-so result on this board using RP racing (or maybe it was just a depleted TBN?) and one poster derided the user for using a "racing" oil in a street driven. This was just one (propbably uninformed) poster but there was some sense to what he was saying. You certainly wouldn't want to use Red Line's racing oils in a street driven car.

"

I won't be using Red Line racing oils. I picked up a case of street 10w-40 for my next change and UOA.

For the uninformed, it's hard to determine if a racing oil is better than a street oil for street driving. Like you said, racing has many different meanings to many different people. I'm glad bulletin boards like this exist to help educate the less informed

"The TBN for this sample looks "OK" but I wouldn't go much longer in any vehicle, regardless of what the oil monitor says."

I won't be using the oil life monitor any more. I'll change at 3-5,000 miles from now on and monitor with UOA.

Bror Jace, Thanks for all the information!

Patman · Feb 12, 2004

quote:

What causes the high copper content? I would assume bearings, but wouldn't think they would be wearing to that point.

It's the cam bearings. It takes until about 50,000 miles before the copper levels come down to a point where the numbers are 1ppm per 1000 miles. It's relatively harmless copper though, so seeing high levels early on is nothing to worry about.

'03 EB/B Corvette Z06 · Feb 12, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Patman:

quote:

What causes the high copper content? I would assume bearings, but wouldn't think they would be wearing to that point.

Click to expand...

It's the cam bearings. It takes until about 50,000 miles before the copper levels come down to a point where the numbers are 1ppm per 1000 miles. It's relatively harmless copper though, so seeing high levels early on is nothing to worry about.

Thanks Patman! I didn't think about the cam bearings.

sbc350gearhead · Feb 12, 2004

Bror.....David Canitz from RP has told me on several occasions, that the street oil uses group I oil to dissolve the additive package. The exact ratio, they will not give. Terry seems to think it is about 80% synthetic. Mobil 1 used to use a mineral carrier oil as well. Does that mean that it shouldn't be called a true synthetic?......I guess that is in the eye of the beholder. But I will defend RP's street oil, before I would defend a GIII.

RP's racing line is supposedly a 100% synthetic.

'03 EB/B Corvette Z06 · Feb 12, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by sbc350gearhead:
Bror.....David Canitz from RP has told me on several occasions, that the street oil uses group I oil to dissolve the additive package. The exact ratio, they will not give. Terry seems to think it is about 80% synthetic. Mobil 1 used to use a mineral carrier oil as well. Does that mean that it shouldn't be called a true synthetic?......I guess that is in the eye of the beholder. But I will defend RP's street oil, before I would defend a GIII.

RP's racing line is supposedly a 100% synthetic.

sbc350gearhead, What's the difference in the group of oil, I v. III? Does the RP street oil use a mineral base?

JohnBrowning · Feb 12, 2004

Personely I do not think any excessive wear metal is harmless. Just because a problem is common does not make it good! THe way I see it someone failed to design soemthing right! Either the clearance is to tight, not enough lube, poor choice of construction methods or poor material choice!

Patman · Feb 12, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
Personely I do not think any excessive wear metal is harmless. Just because a problem is common does not make it good! THe way I see it someone failed to design soemthing right! Either the clearance is to tight, not enough lube, poor choice of construction methods or poor material choice!

There is nothing wrong with the design of the LS1, there are tons of these engines piling up the miles on them now and they don't seem any less reliable than other GM V8s out there. There is a 99 Corvette owner out there who has over 320,000 miles on his car now, still on the original engine.

sbc350gearhead · Feb 12, 2004

03, RP's street oil is primarily a synthetic base, although it uses Group I oil to dissolve the additive package. As I said, Terry Dyson (ultimate oil guru) seems to think its about 80% synthetic, and 20% mineral oil. Groups I, II, and III are mineral oils that are refined from crude oil. Group III is ultra refined, and is allowed to be called synthetic (most members here don't call it synthetic). Groups IV and V are true chemically engineered synthetic oils, and are used in most of the top tier oils (mobil 1, RP, amsoil, redline, etc, etc).

'03 Z06 Corvette 7,955 Miles, RP Racing 21

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