'03 Honda Civic 50/50 Mix M1 0w20 / RL 5w20 OUCH

[GreenElixer]

Man, this hurts. Well, here is the latest from my '03 Honda Civic EX 1.7L

10,200 miles on this OCI
29,900 plus miles on unit
2 Qts Mobil 1 0w20
2 Qts Redline 5w20
4oz. LubeControl at oil fill
1oz. LC every 1,000 miles
Baldwin B1431 Filter ...first 5,000 miles
Pureolator Pure One PL14610 ...second 5,000 miles
Napa Gold Air Filter ... 1st 5k miles
Installed Honda OEM Air Filter at 25k miles on unit ...2nd 5k miles
Napa Gold filter was on 15k at air filter change

First Column 10k 2Qts M1 0w20 & 2Qts RL 5w20 / Second Column 5.8k 3Qts M1 0w20 & 1Qt GC 0w30 / 3rd Column Univ Avg


Aluminum 6/3/3
Chromium 2/1/1
Iron 17/11/9
Copper 16/3/4
Lead 22/3/7
Tin 2/3/1
Moly 206/51/114
Nickel 0/0/0
Manganese 7/0/1
Silver 0/0/0
Titanium 0/0/0
Potassium 0/0/0
Boron 40/93/42
Silicon 16/6/11
Sodium 12/6/13
Calcium 2257/2938/2332
Magnesium 19/59/121
Phos 820/866/810
zinc 940/1074/1003
barium 0/0/0

TBN 2.0
SUS Visc. 55.6 Range 53-59
Flash 400
Fuel Antifrz 0.0
Water 0.0
Insolubles 0.4

Blackstone recommends dumping oil and going back to 5k OCI to ensure complete flush of metals.

Oil was dumped prior to sample. I only wanted to go 10k on this OCI max.

Refilled with 50/50 mix of Castrol Syntec 5w20 and Castrol GC-Gold 0w30 w/Napa Gold Oil Filter Halleluja!! I finally found GC at Autozone after 1 year absence! There is an Elf God after all

.

Added 8oz. of Lube Control by mistake. Overcalculated the amount I wanted to put in and inadvertantly doubled my intent of 4oz dose.

To say the least, I was terribly disapointed at these results. Excuse me while I go outside and apologize to my car!

 

[buster]

You can see RL left it's mark with the Pb reading. It will stabilize but I'd use M1 0w-20/Exxon 5w-20 or Havoline. Any of them will do just fine.

 

[Al]

Yea..that does hurt. I'd be tempted to stay closer to a 30 wt. I just used a mix of Redline (1 qt) and M1 in my last change. (both 30 wt. ) Hope mine turns out better.

 

[Pablo]

Try Amsoil straight. People worry about Amsoil and warranty. Yet mixing and additives are OK. I don't get it.

As for the analysis, it's not catastrophic.

 

[MDD30240]

Isn't it possible that the combination of Redline and Lube Control was too much solvency for the bearing? Either one might work great by themselves but maybe not in combination?

 

[Terry]

MDD asked; " Isn't it possible that the combination of Redline and Lube Control was too much solvency for the bearing? "

NO NO NO NO NO NO.......I am tired of seeing this asked and even suggested by people with engineering and some w/ chemistry background.

RL, LC, alone or together , overtreated or not, from nearly 4 years of testing DOES NOT INCREASE WEAR !
Neither chemistry is that strong !

You could run LC as a motor oil alone and not see that result. I don't recommend it though.

Green get a in depth interpretation and find out why, don't blame your backyard mix or any of the oils/adds for this result.

Hint: Hondas fuel dilute and this is no exception.

Guys I helped get this site going on oil analysis to shed light, not miss interpret every less than stellar report you might procure from whatever lab !

 

[MDD30240]

Thanks.

 

[GreenElixer]

Terry,
I did utilize your analysis on the previous OCI. I thought it very valuable. That's part of the reason I changed from the M1 to the M1 / Redline mix. I should have signed up for your analysis with this one, as well. Forgot about checking the box on the form at Blackstone.

Would still value your analysis on this OCI. You can contact me on PM and we can work out payment, post BS analysis, if you would be interested?

After I've had some time to think about this UOA... much more local, short, city driving, including many hours w/ daughter conducting driver's ed. with her... it still doesn't seem possible that my lead, iron, & copper would have reached that abnormal level vs. previous levels. I even calculated that, of the 24-28 some-odd times that I filled up the gas tank, I used Shell 89 Octane and 1oz./5gal. FP treatment approximately 80% - 85% of the time for the entire 10k OCI. LC every 1k, religiously. I thought I had the optimal set-up going. Then I thought about what impact my changing the air filter half-way through may have done to the results??? I didn't think insoluables were excessively high at 0.4 over 10k. No evident intrusion of coolant. Only slight increase in Silicon on a 10k run... All of the things that I've read on this forum that would be the dead give-aways for elevated bearing wear.

I will re-sample my new fill of Castrol Syntec 5w20 and GC-Gold 0w30 mix at 3k just to see where things are going with my engine. I still plan on my old routine of LC / FP / Shell 89 Octane regimen.

 

[Geoff]

Why mix oils? GC or Mobil has for the most part a proven oil chemistry and no doubt the engineers assumed the oil to be used in non-mixed fashion when creating the oil additive and base oil mix. Its also more straightforward to maintain (although maybe not as fun).

I wonder if the city driving/driver's ed included a lot of lugging of the motor, resulting in increased bearing loading.

 

[Pablo]

Geoff - kind of my point. This is not a slap at RL or LC at all, as maybe Terry took it. It's merely that well constructed oils can better these numbers......I'm not sure about the fuel dilution in lean burning 1.7 liter Hondas, nor am I sure that with a good lube reasonable lugging should cause elevated wear metals (but it does happen!)

 

[Terry]

GreenElixer, email me the raw data so we can take an in depth look at the issue.
Drawing incorrect conclusions from the oil analysis result is the point of my post.

Fuel dilute is the cause.

While I don't PREFER the M1/ RL mix, neither one of the oils in the mix nor the LC chemistry caused the bearing wear.

 

[buster]

We saw recently RL run 3 times in a row and on the 3rd run, Pb dropped significantly.

Have a look at this thread:

RL x 3

 

[Surprise]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Terry:
Fuel dilute is the cause.

---

Why does the report not show a lower flash point and higher fuel amount?

I would think a flash point of 400 and less than 0.5 fuel would be great numbers.

 

[GreenElixer]

Terry,
Will do on the email. Thanks for the input so far.

Geoff,
I mix oil for several reasons. At first, I was a sceptic when it came to 20 weight oils. Never heard or saw it on the shelves until I bought my '03 Civic and noticed the manual recommended a 5w20. Same time, I found and got addicted to the BITOG forum. Started to read many different UOA's with different successes with varying brands of oil mfg'ers. Got hooked on the Green GC ...hence my forum name

... and used it in my wife's van, my father-in-law's Toyota and used my very last quart in my Honda. That's where it got started. Then realized that Autozone's in Fort Wayne Indiana stopped carrying the Green. Switched to M1 and also gave Amsoil a try in wife's van. I tried the Amsoil 0w30 in my Honda with all 4 quarts 0w30. It seemed much more sluggish and mpg dropped 2 or 3 mpg. So that led me to experiment back to 20 weights but still wanted some added protection of 30 weight oil. The rest of the mixing oils "is history" as they say. Plus it is fun to experiment to see what combinations may prove to be more successful than just a straight shot of 5w30 or 5w20. The mix of RL/M1 came from a couple of guys who had very good results mixing 3 qts M1 with 1 quart of RL. So I thought what the heck. Well, Heck came and now I'm like a dog with it's tail between my legs. It feels aweful. I take pride in my ability to take care of my vehicles. I like to buy new and hold on to them for 12 to 15 years. Now I feel like I've

my car for life. I'm sure I'll get over it if the next UOA comes back with better numbers, though! I hope.
Thanks for everyone's thoughts and opinions. The search for the ultimate UOA continues!

 

[Terry]

Surprise, thats why I have an analysis business interpreting this data, its proprietary how I know.

Those #'s are what the lab machinery saw. 400F and
M1 and Redline are not good chemistry mixes.

 

[satterfi]

I got very similar results in my 03 civic running straight RL 10-30 and LC.

After several runs and no improvement, I'm running M1 10-30, no LC.

Regardless of what some oil guru's think, if it doesn't look right, then it probably isn't right.

 

[TooSlick]

Mixing lubes is like asking two of your girl friends to attend the same party.

It can only turn out badly - particularly if they know each other.

 

[Steve S]

Originally posted by TooSlick:
Mixing lubes is like asking two of your girl friends to attend the same party.

It can only turn out badly - particularly if they know each other.

Not always T.S.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Steve S - you got it, mind you Ted...s is probably getting beyond it!

Regards

Doug

 

[pscholte]

My biggest issue here is why a member with such a beautiful name pointing to such a beautiful oil is running this non-green concoction.

I thought 1.7 liters of Honda metal would be fine
With a clever mix of Mobil 1 and Redline
And then I got my UOA...
It surely did not make my day
I knew better...I could have set my motor free
If only I had followed the Green Light to GC