'02 Accord V6 7671 miles Redline 5W20

[benjamming]

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Oil used Redline 5W20 GC Green GC Green AMSOIL XL-7500 5W20 AMSOIL XL-7500 5W20

Sample Date Mar-10-2007 Oct-14-2006 May-12-2006 Oct-1-2005 Mar-12-2005

Miles on oil 7,671 7,618 7,518 7,506 5,084

Miles on car 63,083 55,412 47,794 40,267 32,761

Make-up oil 0.4 qt 0.4 qt 0.4 qt 0.4 qt 0.4 qt

Oil filter AMSOIL EaO K&N AMSOIL SDF Honda AMSOIL SDF

Fuel adds FP60 FP60 FP60 FP60 AMSOIL PI/Redline SI-1

MPG 23.1 22.4 22.9 23.1 22.1

Lab Blackstone Blackstone Blackstone Blackstone Blackstone



Aluminum: 2 3 2 3 3

Chromium: 1 0 1 1 2

Iron: 11 9 9 9 12

Copper: 19 25 24 30 34

Lead: 12 18 40 7 8

Tin: 0 0 1 4 1

Molybdenum: 476 1 1 1 0

Nickel: 0 0 0 0 1

Manganese: 0 0 1 1 0

Silver: 0 0 0 0 0

Titanium: 0 0 0 0 0

Potassium: 1 2 0 0 3

Boron: 8 0 0 1 4

Silicon: 13 7 5 8 5

Sodium: 13 1 1 4 1

Calcium: 2703 2900 2510 2634 2633

Magnesium: 24 128 113 35 88

Phosphorus: 1127 750 703 662 696

Zinc: 1245 860 859 797 773

Barium: 1 0 0 0 0

SUS Viscosity: 58.2 65.9 65.2 54.2 52.2

Flashpoint: SHORT 380 375 365 375

Water: 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

Insolubles: 0.3 0.5 0.5 0.4 0.4

Antifreeze: 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

TBN: 2.2 2.9 2.7 2.6 3.6

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A change occured during this interval - more highway driving especially during the last 2 months. My trip to work is now 25 miles each way instead of 3 miles each way.

No oil adds have ever been used.

Air filter has always been OEM until 60k miles when a cheap Fram was installed.

Somehow on the latest sample, Blackstone didn't have enough oil to do a flashpoint even though the bottle was sent full.

The oil & filter was changed with same oil & filter.

No visible oil leaks anywhere.

FP3000 is now being used. The last 8 fillups didn't have FP60.

 

[BillionPa]

ditch the fram!

 

[98LSC32V]

Look at all the moly and zinc and phosphorus in the Redline... good stuff...

 

[dave1251]

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ditch the fram!

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Why would you say that? A little more than half of the run was using an air filter with close to 60K on it. That would explain the spike in the Silicone. As for the rise in other wear materials. It is a normal first Redline Oil change.

 

[benjamming]

dave1251,

The SAME OEM air filter has NOT been used for 60k miles. However, an OEM air filter has been used until 60k miles. The factory air filter was changed at 30k miles with another Honda air filter. Sorry for the confusion.

BillionPa,

The cheap Fram air filter has been publicly suggested by Terry on one of Pablo's UOAs for his Honda Odyssey V6 as a way to flow more air but yet still filter well which will help with fuel dilution.

 

[Titan]

Interesting how the Pb spiked up to 40, then decreased. Mine just spiked up to 22 from two UOA's of 2, with all other wear metals low....must be something to the "particle streak" theory. Intersting...

 

[Pablo]

I dunno about the particle streak theory - but it looks like the lowly Group III did the best.

 

[ewetho]

Watch the redline as there is some history of high levels of wear metals from the first couple of UOAs. See if wear metals come down on next OCI and you should be OK after that on Redline.

 

[Steve S]

The lead is dropping other than that all the oils show good numbers . The numbers seem about equal.

 

[ekpolk]

I know it will take some time, but I'd try several runs of RL in a row to see if it will stabilize at lower levels. If you don't get what you want, maybe you should go back to the Amsoil XL.

 

[unDummy]

No benefit from thicker oils. Stick with the 5w20's and the mild MPG increase.

Si is up, but isn't some of it from the Redline? I don't care for Fram filters but Si still looks good. If Si climbs more, lose the Fram.

Only thing that sticks out is typical of Redline. TBN seems to drop quickly. If driving style didn't change, it would've looked worse.

Stick with the ~7.5k intervals. Any oil would work well.

Insolubles drop caused either by that Amsoil filter or the new driving style. Oil probably has less run time on it. Stick with the Amsoil filter.

Next run should only look better!

 

[benjamming]

The previous run (GC) was during the summer. The current UOA is over the winter. The car is now garaged overnight, not that it got too terribly cold here this winter, but still.

Comparing the May-2006 run of GC to this run of RL seems to make more sense than comparing the last run of GC which was sampled in Oct-2006.

I can't tell if there are any differences in mpg when compared to previous time of year b/c of the change in much more highway miles as noted above.

I have thought about going 10k miles on this current run. The oil filter will be fine. It will be a lot of driving to work (30 minutes for 25 miles). The engine is broken in. I am running Redline afterall which should be capable. What do you think?

 

[buster]

Ben, stick with the RL for a few more runs. I think you'll see even lower wear the next run. Dave from RL said their oils will cause a spike in wear metals for a few thousand miles. I think I might have that email actually. 10k is doable.

 

[kapps]

So what is the recommended process of switching to Redline? With the initial high wear, should we do a 3-5k mile initial run to minimize wear and then extend the drain intervals after that?

 

[JohnBrowning]

Pablo please explain what criteria you are useing to claim that the lowly GIII did the best? It had fewer miles on it and the only thing that it had that was lower was lead reading none of the other wear metals were better then Redline. THe TBN was ok but when you look at how new the vechile was it is no wounder that the TBN was better.

 

[Pablo]

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Pablo please explain what criteria you are useing to claim that the lowly GIII did the best? It had fewer miles on it and the only thing that it had that was lower was lead reading none of the other wear metals were better then Redline. THe TBN was ok but when you look at how new the vechile was it is no wounder that the TBN was better.

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The XLM oil on Oct 1, 2005 had less than 200 miles difference. For all practical purposes, the same as Redline. So your first statement confuses me. Yes for the same miles, the lead was the absolute lowest with XLM. The Fe is lower than Redline and tied with GC. The Cu is coming down, but this seems to be a normal Honda V6 thing. I stand by my statement and maybe think you aren't looking at the columns correctly or your anti-Amsoil hat is on too tight.

Perhaps the Redline will do better the second run as everyone hopes - but I have seen second and thirds runs and not much change.

 

[unDummy]

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So what is the recommended process of switching to Redline? With the initial high wear, should we do a 3-5k mile initial run to minimize wear and then extend the drain intervals after that?

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No process. Just don't blindly go long OCI without UOA.

 

[wgtoys]

Based on this data set I would go back to the Amsoil XL. Copper readings in a Honda V6 don't tell you much as long as they are trending down as the engine ages. Lead and Iron numbers were both superior in the second Amsoil run than anything you have tried since. GC looks like it was not a good match at all.

Personally I would try a less exotic mainstream synthetic like Pennzoil Platinum or Valvoline Synpower or else go back to the Amsoil XL.