Look real to me...
Did I buy fake filters?
- Thread starter stchman
- Start date
- Status
There are no fake filters. However, there are bad filters, and counterfeit ones which are typically bad as well, but not necessarily.
The filters likely to be faked are OEM and higher-value value ones. That Fram looks good to me.
Originally Posted by Kestas
If someone were to counterfeit an oil filter, I would expect them to pick a better brand.
There are many counterfeiters selling product with our company's logo on it. That's because we're leaders in industry with a good name. Cheapie companies don't get counterfeited much.
Of course this has to turn into a fram bash thread...
If someone were to counterfeit an oil filter, I would expect them to pick a better brand.
There are many counterfeiters selling product with our company's logo on it. That's because we're leaders in industry with a good name. Cheapie companies don't get counterfeited much.
Of course this has to turn into a fram bash thread...
You would be better off with fake OCODs or Purolators than the real thing.
Originally Posted by Saul
Of course this has to turn into a fram bash thread...
I think he's getting at, though I can't speak for him, about going for the low hanging fruit. Counterfeiting an Ultra might be a profitable venture. Counterfeiting an orange can or a cartridge might be more trouble than it's worth. The orange can isn't worth a bunch, and with the cartridge filter, one would think shortcuts would be more obvious.
Counterfeit an ultra and put in bargain basement internals, that's another matter.
Of course this has to turn into a fram bash thread...
I think he's getting at, though I can't speak for him, about going for the low hanging fruit. Counterfeiting an Ultra might be a profitable venture. Counterfeiting an orange can or a cartridge might be more trouble than it's worth. The orange can isn't worth a bunch, and with the cartridge filter, one would think shortcuts would be more obvious.
Counterfeit an ultra and put in bargain basement internals, that's another matter.
Originally Posted by Saul
Originally Posted by Kestas
If someone were to counterfeit an oil filter, I would expect them to pick a better brand.
There are many counterfeiters selling product with our company's logo on it. That's because we're leaders in industry with a good name. Cheapie companies don't get counterfeited much.
Of course this has to turn into a Fram bash thread...
Bashing Fram oil filters is a trendy thing to do. Even though there is ZERO empirical evidence to support them. Cutting open a filter and looking at its internals is NOT a evidence. I could understand if there were engines tore down after 100K miles and the Fram engine was wore out while the other filters the engine was fine.
Originally Posted by Kestas
If someone were to counterfeit an oil filter, I would expect them to pick a better brand.
There are many counterfeiters selling product with our company's logo on it. That's because we're leaders in industry with a good name. Cheapie companies don't get counterfeited much.
Of course this has to turn into a Fram bash thread...
Bashing Fram oil filters is a trendy thing to do. Even though there is ZERO empirical evidence to support them. Cutting open a filter and looking at its internals is NOT a evidence. I could understand if there were engines tore down after 100K miles and the Fram engine was wore out while the other filters the engine was fine.
That's exactly what I meant. There's no reason to bash the Ultra. It's a good product and a well made fake would be more likely to attract someone looking for a bargain.
Originally Posted by stchman
Cutting open a filter and looking at its internals is NOT a evidence.
It can certainly show evidence of problems like tearing media which most are familiar with - or other build quality problems. Some problems could be detrimental to an engine.
Cutting open a filter and looking at its internals is NOT a evidence.
It can certainly show evidence of problems like tearing media which most are familiar with - or other build quality problems. Some problems could be detrimental to an engine.
Or looking at, in my hypothetical example, a counterfeit Fram Ultra. If you see orange can internals there, it would be a factory screwup. You see something totally different inside than what is normal, I'd guess it to be a counterfeit.
There were photos posted by Hyundai or KIA showing what counterfeit/fake OEM filters looked like inside compared to authentic/real OEM filters. Most people would be amazed by how many products are counterfeit, most of them coming out of China/Asia.
I think Shannow even found a site where they'd make a filter for you to your brand or whatever other proprietary brand you wanted to copy.
Originally Posted by stchman
Originally Posted by FowVay
Why do you think they are fake?
Originally Posted by Saul
What makes you think they are fake?
I did an oil change on my Canyon already and the filter box(Fram CH10246) looks somewhat different. I bought the filter at Walmart.
Keep in mind that these filters(all filters) are made around the world in different factories in order to supply different markets. Also, the filter mfg's may in fact update their filters either to improve them, cut cost or a variety of reasons.
Also, the printing & graphics on the box is called the "Art Work". And this often needs to be changed due to needing updating. If they're going to make one change, it often makes sense to make all changes needed for validation.
Originally Posted by FowVay
Why do you think they are fake?
Originally Posted by Saul
What makes you think they are fake?
I did an oil change on my Canyon already and the filter box(Fram CH10246) looks somewhat different. I bought the filter at Walmart.
Keep in mind that these filters(all filters) are made around the world in different factories in order to supply different markets. Also, the filter mfg's may in fact update their filters either to improve them, cut cost or a variety of reasons.
Also, the printing & graphics on the box is called the "Art Work". And this often needs to be changed due to needing updating. If they're going to make one change, it often makes sense to make all changes needed for validation.
Last edited:
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Fake and counterfeit are the same thing.
Glossary for my previous post, in the context of oil filters:
Fake = something which looks like a filter, but isn't designed to actually filter. I.e., not a real filter, a dummy.
Counterfeit = a filter of disreputable origin, contrived to look like a specific major-brand filter.
Bad = a filter supposedly intended to be functional, but which functions poorly.
I would concede that a fake Brand X would imply a counterfeit, because it's pretending to be a Brand X, but a (generic) fake is only pretending to be a filter. No brand name is in the thread title.
Fake and counterfeit are the same thing.
Glossary for my previous post, in the context of oil filters:
Fake = something which looks like a filter, but isn't designed to actually filter. I.e., not a real filter, a dummy.
Counterfeit = a filter of disreputable origin, contrived to look like a specific major-brand filter.
Bad = a filter supposedly intended to be functional, but which functions poorly.
I would concede that a fake Brand X would imply a counterfeit, because it's pretending to be a Brand X, but a (generic) fake is only pretending to be a filter. No brand name is in the thread title.
Last edited:
Per Merrian Webster, fake and counterfeit are synonymous.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fake
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/counterfeit
Also, per Dictionary.com:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/fake
Noun
Anything made to appear otherwise than it actually is; counterfeit: "This diamond necklace is a fake."
Even If a filter looked like a real filter on the outside, but was empty on the inside (ie, didn't function as a filter), it could still be considered counterfeit.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fake
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/counterfeit
Also, per Dictionary.com:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/fake
Noun
Anything made to appear otherwise than it actually is; counterfeit: "This diamond necklace is a fake."
Even If a filter looked like a real filter on the outside, but was empty on the inside (ie, didn't function as a filter), it could still be considered counterfeit.
So this is what we've come to?
FWIW, I believe the packaging changed late last year, this looks like older packaging.
FWIW, I believe the packaging changed late last year, this looks like older packaging.
I was just wanting to know if I bought counterfeit or fake filters. Last year's packaging is OK with me, just as long as it is the genuine article.
- Status
