Inside Mobil1's Testing & Lab set-up, Annual Prot

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted By: JFAllen
GM DEXOS2 oils (HTHS >3.5) either 5W30 or 5W40 can be used in place of DEXOS1 (HTHS >2.9) oils without voiding of warranty. good option for higher duty applications. regards Jordan
I've heard dexos2 (diesel motor oil) can be used for dexos1, yet my '18 Equinox 1.5L owner's manual says I gotta use 0w20, and it only mentions dexos1, not dexos2 as an option. So, dexos2 isn't available in a 0w20 anyway, and the owner's manual doesn't say its an exception.

I guess I can see GM secretly allowing a dexos2 5w30 in a dexos1 0w20 application for potential warranty engine failue cases, supposedly.
It would be nice if there was at least some GM official statement allowing it.

 

[Garak]

Check his location. In his neck of the woods, it's in their manuals. Here, we don't get that. Heck, it's hard enough to find any dexos2 oil here.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: 4WD
Interesting … ever use this number:




I'm certain this is effective but I don't like adding an additional mating surface into the mix nor can all application extend the additional half inch.

Linctexs examples of Neodymium buttons in the recessed dish is likely as effective with the benefit of easier examination of particles and no additional mating surface.


UD

 

[JFAllen]

Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
I've heard dexos2 (diesel motor oil) can be used for dexos1, yet my '18 Equinox 1.5L owner's manual says I gotta use 0w20, and it only mentions dexos1, not dexos2 as an option. So, dexos2 isn't available in a 0w20 anyway, and the owner's manual doesn't say its an exception.

I guess I can see GM secretly allowing a dexos2 5w30 in a dexos1 0w20 application for potential warranty engine failure cases, supposedly.
It would be nice if there was at least some GM official statement allowing it.


As DEXOS2 oils must have a HTHS of >3.5, they are available in a minimum 30-weight. As you probably just bought your 18-plated Equinox you're right to be mindful of warranty complications. That said DEXOS2 oils are more robust than DEXOS1 and must pass more stringent tests (mostly related to carbon deposits, related to use in turbo diesel engines with EGR/DI and DPF's.) DEXOS1 is more concerned with fuel economy, and CAFE regs for the USA.

127kW is a fair shout for an OEM 1.5L turbo. using a licenced 5W30 DEXOS2 oil (for example Pennzoil Platinum Euro L ) will not void your warranty. And given the demands placed on an oil by a petrol turbo-charging system, especially if you're heavy footed, or otherwise on boost alot of the time, a higher HTHS is always welcome.

DOXOS2 oils are also a lower SAPS oil (~0.8%) which is beneficial when it comes to reducing carbon deposits in the inlet tract and LSPI as a result of the DI system

Regards
Jordan

 

[oil_film_movies]

JFAllen, One could use a dexos2 thick-viscosity oil in a GM 0w20-spec'd application. The only cost would be about a 2%-3% loss in fuel economy and peak power. For anybody who wants a little more assurance of oil film thickness during towing, racing, hard driving in hot weather, they CAN disagree with GM in the U.S. and change from a dexos1 0w20 to a dexos1 0w30 or 5w30, but I doubt its necessary to thicken it all the way up to a dexos2 5w30 high viscosity oil.

GM did their durability testing using 0w20, so raising visc a little, to a dexos1 xw30 is enough.
Raising HTHS by UP TO +0.5 is plenty, which means going from a dexos1 xw30 to a 229.5, or going from a dexos1 xw20 to a dexos1 xw30.

 

[Garak]

The real point is that GM is using dexos2 in gassers in parts of the world outside of Canada and the U.S. OEMs here play the game here how one viscosity only is acceptable all the time and any deviation whatsoever (temperature doesn't matter, of course, since viscosity change by temperature clearly doesn't matter to marketers and lawyers, even though it does to engineers) is unacceptable, unless you have a GM calling for 5w-30, and 0w-30 is acceptable in the winter.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with a dexos1 oil of the specified viscosity, but the OEMs use a lot of apocalyptic language where it isn't appropriate. My only real criticism of the dexos1 spec so far was bringing other viscosities into the equation, which takes away some of the simplicity. If dexos1 stuck to a minimum and maximum HTHS that turned out to be 5w-30 only, with all dexos1 oil being completely interchangeable (that's the way dexos2 is), they'd have achieved their goals for the program completely.

 

[tig1]

Does the extensive real time testing that Ford and GM have done in there truck and car engines using either 5-20 or 0-20 oils represent a lie and cover-up as to the reliability and longevity of their engines using these oils? Also is the testing with 20wt oils that oil companies like Chevron, XM, Penz, Amsoil, and all the others a cover-up as well.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Does the extensive real time testing that Ford and GM have done in there truck and car engines using either 5-20 or 0-20 oils represent a lie and cover-up as to the reliability and longevity of their engines using these oils? Also is the testing with 20wt oils that oil companies like Chevron, XM, Penz, Amsoil, and all the others a cover-up as well.


Why does the strawman "lie" have to be brought in ?

What IS the lie that you are referring to ?

Honda, in their papers, state that they want to improve fuel economy (or reduce GHG depending on market) while still offering "acceptable"/"adequate" engine life...they acknowledge that dropping viscosity makes wear more dependent on additive technology...and at the point it's wear minimisation rather than elimination.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: tig1
Does the extensive real time testing that Ford and GM have done in there truck and car engines using either 5-20 or 0-20 oils represent a lie and cover-up as to the reliability and longevity of their engines using these oils? Also is the testing with 20wt oils that oil companies like Chevron, XM, Penz, Amsoil, and all the others a cover-up as well.


Why does the strawman "lie" have to be brought in ?

What IS the lie that you are referring to ?

Honda, in their papers, state that they want to improve fuel economy (or reduce GHG depending on market) while still offering "acceptable"/"adequate" engine life...they acknowledge that dropping viscosity makes wear more dependent on additive technology...and at the point it's wear minimisation rather than elimination.


Some here believe the engine builders are pawning off a product (20wt oils) that is less than sufficient to properly lubricate their engines for the long haul. That's the supposed lie.

 

[4WD]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: tig1
Does the extensive real time testing that Ford and GM have done in there truck and car engines using either 5-20 or 0-20 oils represent a lie and cover-up as to the reliability and longevity of their engines using these oils? Also is the testing with 20wt oils that oil companies like Chevron, XM, Penz, Amsoil, and all the others a cover-up as well.


Why does the strawman "lie" have to be brought in ?

What IS the lie that you are referring to ?

Honda, in their papers, state that they want to improve fuel economy (or reduce GHG depending on market) while still offering "acceptable"/"adequate" engine life...they acknowledge that dropping viscosity makes wear more dependent on additive technology...and at the point it's wear minimisation rather than elimination.


Some here believe the engine builders are pawning off a product (20wt oils) that is less than sufficient to properly lubricate their engines for the long haul. That's the supposed lie.


Many just see it as an acceptable trade off … in the Houston market ~ based on when that Fusion goes back to Mexico

 

[PeterPolyol]

More soup, please

 

[Bryanccfshr]

This dexos 2 thing is awesome.

It is only prudent to use a higher viscosity oil when taxing the engine beyond grocery getter /easy commuter duty.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Does the extensive real time testing that Ford and GM have done in there truck and car engines using either 5-20 or 0-20 oils represent a lie and cover-up as to the reliability and longevity of their engines using these oils? Also is the testing with 20wt oils that oil companies like Chevron, XM, Penz, Amsoil, and all the others a cover-up as well.

Does the oil and engine testing by the majors and the OEMs do anything to justify dire warnings in manuals about using anything beyond 0w-20?

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies

We hardly ever see ringlands on high miles vehicles, so I'm not sure what it takes to get stuck rings.


We hardly ever see ringlands?
What do you mean - they wear away?
I have NEVER seen "disappearing ring lands"

Stuck rings, yes - -
on an engine that did a LOT of towing (Ford 302) and had no oil cooler......
and it never saw more than 3500-4000 miles OCI's.
(but lots and lots and lots of WOT at max torque rpm operation)

 

[SilverFusion2010]

Most high mileage motors are junked, thus not torn down. So you don't see the condition of the ring lands. I believe that is what he meant

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: tig1
Does the extensive real time testing that Ford and GM have done in there truck and car engines using either 5-20 or 0-20 oils represent a lie and cover-up as to the reliability and longevity of their engines using these oils? Also is the testing with 20wt oils that oil companies like Chevron, XM, Penz, Amsoil, and all the others a cover-up as well.

Does the oil and engine testing by the majors and the OEMs do anything to justify dire warnings in manuals about using anything beyond 0w-20?


Dire warnings? Do you mean engine failure? Engine damage? What dire warnings? Just askin.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
Now how many people will regularly buy it and drive on it for significantly LESS than 20k miles and then change it at the end of the year. I'd say the answer is 'most people'. And for me, there's the disconnect. The raison d'être of this oil is more rooted in 'buyer psychology' (the 'I want the best oil for my car' syndrome) than it is in any kind of objective technical reality. It's why I personally wouldn't ever buy it....


Yes... That's about what I was thinking.

It's marketing genius, and has been since day one.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010
Most high mileage motors are junked, thus not torn down. So you don't see the condition of the ring lands. I believe that is what he meant


Gotcha.

I see a lot of torn down "junked" engines, BTW....

I see a lot of broken rings, but the lands often look just fine.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Dire warnings? Do you mean engine failure? Engine damage? What dire warnings? Just askin.

Yes, dire warnings about the warranty, dire warnings about engine damage that won't be covered by warranty. I get that I shouldn't use SAE 40 in a Saskatchewan winter and expect warranty coverage if something bad happens. But, using a 0w-30 in a nominal 0w-20 engine is not worthy of dire warnings, or warranty threats.

 

[KL31]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: tig1
Dire warnings? Do you mean engine failure? Engine damage? What dire warnings? Just askin.

Yes, dire warnings about the warranty, dire warnings about engine damage that won't be covered by warranty. I get that I shouldn't use SAE 40 in a Saskatchewan winter and expect warranty coverage if something bad happens. But, using a 0w-30 in a nominal 0w-20 engine is not worthy of dire warnings, or warranty threats.


In the game of monopoly this is the get out of jail free card or for car dealerships, get out of warranty free card. Seeing how engines seem to survive ridiculous fuel dilution that turn 20 and 30 grades into 16 grades, I wonder if some engines can move up and down multiple grades with negligible ill effects.