Ford 4.6L Coolant Pressure Mystery

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Originally Posted By: Ethan1
Everyone keeps saying there is a leak in the system, but OP isn't losing coolant, sooooo......

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It's got to be bleeding off somewhere. That means a leak. Even a small distorted sealing edge on the recovery bottle.
 
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Originally Posted By: Lubener
Originally Posted By: Ethan1
Everyone keeps saying there is a leak in the system, but OP isn't losing coolant, sooooo......

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It's got to be bleeding off somewhere. That means a leak. Even a small distorted sealing edge on the recovery bottle.


That's exactly where my thoughts were going, an air leak where no coolant is reaching but needs to be tight to build pressure.
 
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
I'd go over the car with an Infra Red gun. If you have normal coolant, trans, and engine temps everywhere, I'd leave it all alone....until another symptom shows up. Most people would be quite happy with normal coolant temps, especially on hot summer days. There are numerous places where a slight weep could cause pressure to leak off undetected. A drop tearon of the coolant system might not even find it. I recently had a slight trans fluid cooler leak into my coolant system. Droplets of oil were showing up at the top of the coolant reservoir. Yet a 24 hr coolant system pressure test showed nothing.

No leaks, normal coolant temps and level, never overheats. Sounds good to me.
I appreciate the input. This is a great idea, and I have no idea why I didn't think of an IR gun. I'll see if I can borrow one or grab one on the cheap. I have no idea if the coolant/engine temps are normal, I'm just going by the digital (not the analog like in most Vics/GMs) temp gauges which has always illuminated the bottom 4 of 8 bars (vertical gauge). I think I need to verify it's accuracy. I have no clue on the trans temp. There isn't a gauge. Regatdless, almost 2 years and 20k would have shown anything abnormal, right?
Thanks again!
 
Originally Posted By: meep
Yes, I misunderstood. So it holds pressure, shows no leaks, yet doesn't pressurize. Was the pressure test done when good and hot? Now I see why you are stumped.

1. thought one: engine is not actually approaching full op temp. can you verify temp? IR gun? multimeter with a temp probe? This happened to me with chrysler 3.3 - t-stat was opening too soon.

2. thought two: pressure is only leaking at op temps/under load - such as head gasket or something with the intake manifold/gasket.

This is a good one.

m
"Now I see why you are stumped."
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Finally someone understands!

No, the pressure test was done cold about a week after changing the intake (~55° ambient temp I think. Mid-November in central OK on a warmer day). I didn't know you could test it hot. But I guess if it's not building pressure it wouldn't matter anyway. May have to re-test.

As for thought one, it's possible but unlikely. It acts normal, if anything it acts like it's too warm sometimes, but no problems. The oil comes out near perfect after 4-4.5k intervals (VSP 5W-20). Looking through the oil cap hole, the internals are only getting cleaner (in mediocre shape at first). I would think if it's not reaching full temp, sludge would be in order. The thermostat was changed when I did the intake (Nov. '15). I suppose it can't hurt to change it again, but I doubt it's the culprit. As I stated earlier, it warms quickly, and it always stays at the same temp according to the gauge, normal. I'm looking into an IR gun...

Thought 2 is also possible, but I feel the suspects listed are impossible. I changed the intake and there's no oil/coolant mixing. But a crack that expands with heat is possible, but only where coolant can't reach.

Now that I've changed the water pump to eliminate the variable, I'm giving it a day or two to ensure all air is out of the system and to see if pressure will build. If not, I think a replacement recovery tank and/or hoses are my next suspects.
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Originally Posted By: Trav
Sorry it was early and I missed it. You could put dye in the system but as you said there is no coolant loss and its holding pressure and so is the cap. I suspect it might be normal. I have a VW with a totally rebuilt cooling system that act similar to this.
Here is a little twist to pressure testing, get a vacuum fill tool. Drain as much coolant as you can the put the system under a vacuum with the tool if it holds a vacuum for 30 sec-1 min with no significant loss of vacuum there is no air ingress.
The tool will allow you to refill the system with no voids for an air bubble to form. I use this one but there are cheaper ones that work fine.

http://www.tooltopia.com/uview-550000.as...CFdaFswodWroDQw

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwjG4-Tv4KnUAhVMBBoKHTHYClAQFggtMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.uview.com%2Fsite%2Fywd_uview%2Fassets%2Fpdf%2F99080802_airlift_ii_inst.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHE2rJCFCRWFeIY6n4ErJFv2eWlQQ&sig2=HhwX0MOeMJnKx8rQdj3UtQ&cad=rja
I guess there's a one in a million chance it could be normal, but again I refuse to accept that. I should not be able to drive 600 miles and quickly remove the cap and nothing happens. I did not know this tool existed. Very very interesting. At $100+, I'll change every part first, but as an absolute last resort, I may try it. A bonus would be never worrying about air bubbles again. The concept makes a ton of sense though. Much appreciated!
 
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
What temperature is the engine actually running? I couldnt care less what the dummy gauge on the dash says, Im interested in real temperature in degrees. Ive seen one of these cars with a lazy thermostat that ran in the 170-180F range.

Driving highway these things don't get hot unless you're pulling a big hill. 194F is where mine sits though I have seen 212 coming up a few big hills.
If you leave it idling with the Climate control on, it also won't get very hot since the fan is on all the time; mine will stay right at 194F on all but the hottest days. If you turn the climate control off and idle it, the fan will stay off until 210F or so.
I'm looking into an IR gun to actually see what temps are where. I've been relying on the dummy gauge, like a dummy. I doubt the thermostat is the culprit, it's the 2nd one I've seen on it, and both resulted in no pressure (although the first one was confirmed bad). Plus the upper hose gets hot as heck. I've driven up some serious highway hills on I-44 in central/Eastern Missouri. Gauge has always read normal, but again, dummy gauge.

But as for the idling, isn't that backwards? Or are the Vics/GMs different? I would think with the compressor on it would run hotter, fan or not. Maybe I'm confused. Either way, I've done plenty of idling both ways, both yield the same answer. Normal. If anything, I feel it is more stressed (temp-wise) with the compressor on. It seems more sluggish and exhausted. And yes, I know the compressor will introduce more parasitic loss, yield less power, etc. But still, on top of all that, the engine/trans seems more heat stressed than it should with it on.
 
Originally Posted By: tony1679
Originally Posted By: Miller88
I recently changed the intake manifold on the F350 and there are a few ports on the coolant crossover that can be opened up (either for the various temp sensors or maybe bleeding), is it possible that you are losing some coolant and air through that?

Or have you checked the coolant bottle itself? There could be a hairline crack in the seem that you are not seeing.
Thanks for the input. I'm not sure, I'll have to look later as it's not the factory intake. It's a Dorman replacement (working well btw).

As for the tank, I have looked many times (but never with it out of the car, so I may overlook one every time). However visual inspection aside, if it lost less than 1 p.s.i. over a 45 minute pressure test, I highly doubt there is a leak.
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I had to take the bottle off of the F350 to flush it the other day and I noticed a hairline crack in it. wouldn't have noticed it otherwise.
 
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
Originally Posted By: Dadillac
One idea that hasn't been addressed. The 4.6 engines have a crossover pipe that has a plug in it. It is higher than the reservoir. If the system isn't bleed properly you will have an air pocket. Here is the procedure
http://www.reischeperformance.com/refill.html

Don


Thats for the Dual Overhead Cam 4.6; his has the Single over


Oops my bad

Don
 
Well, I finally replaced the water pump about two weeks ago. 4 bolts and a 20 minute job... HA! No, it took 2 hours of prying and a screwdriver losing it's life to pry it out (yeah, I broke a screwdriver using it like a pry bar
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). It was suctioned into the block like crazy! That aside, the answer was found. It WAS the water pump! I have pressure again. What's really strange though is that the old pump appeared to be perfectly fine. No broken/worn/missing impeller, no wobble, no gunk, nothing. Looked no different than the one that went in. I can't make sense of it
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, but at least it's fixed and the mystery is solved.
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Good to hear.

Was the impeller firmly attached? I wonder if it slipped under load, giving just a hair of circulation.
 
Sounds like my 06 Mustang...Think you are looking for a problem thats not there.
I run the H@ll out my Stang too in very hot conditions. Drove the back way to Tucson...128 degrees outside never did under 100 and hit 140 a few time....car temp gauge never moved.
 
Originally Posted By: supton
Good to hear.

Was the impeller firmly attached? I wonder if it slipped under load, giving just a hair of circulation.
Yeah, it looked, felt, and spun just like the new one. No play at all anywhere. It's really bizarre. Perhaps the variable was that it was suctioned in there so incredibly tight and the new one isn't? Idk. New one still has pressure and works great, so I'm not losing any more sleep over it.
 
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