Yes they all get ultrasonic even if I have to take them apart. Its true if you stick to brand name fuels you stand a better chance of getting high quality fuel with a decent amount of additives, I like Shell but all top tier should is fine.
Does fuel injector cleaner really do anything
- Thread starter ram_man
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: Trav
Yes they all get ultrasonic even if I have to take them apart. Its true if you stick to brand name fuels you stand a better chance of getting high quality fuel with a decent amount of additives, I like Shell but all top tier should is fine.
This is the point I've been trying to make. I don't dispute engines need additives. I guess I shouldn't have called it snake oil. But in my experience, if you buy top tier fuel there's no need to buy fuel treatment. Again, just because some is good doesn't always mean more is better. Buy the cheap no-name gas and you very well may benefit from fuel treatment in a bottle. It's just more economical to buy the good gas and forget it.
Yes they all get ultrasonic even if I have to take them apart. Its true if you stick to brand name fuels you stand a better chance of getting high quality fuel with a decent amount of additives, I like Shell but all top tier should is fine.
This is the point I've been trying to make. I don't dispute engines need additives. I guess I shouldn't have called it snake oil. But in my experience, if you buy top tier fuel there's no need to buy fuel treatment. Again, just because some is good doesn't always mean more is better. Buy the cheap no-name gas and you very well may benefit from fuel treatment in a bottle. It's just more economical to buy the good gas and forget it.
Absolutely, but, as I mentioned, some cannot get Top Tier gas, and some places have strange pricing. Here, I'm lucky, since Top Tier is the same as everyone else, aside from seriously grungy discount places. In any case, I still run a bottle of Regane or SI-1 a couple times a year. If I was stuck with questionable fuel, I'd want to run SI-1 in maintenance doses.
Fair enough.
Originally Posted By: Starman2112
Originally Posted By: Trav
Yes they all get ultrasonic even if I have to take them apart. Its true if you stick to brand name fuels you stand a better chance of getting high quality fuel with a decent amount of additives, I like Shell but all top tier should is fine.
This is the point I've been trying to make. I don't dispute engines need additives. I guess I shouldn't have called it snake oil. But in my experience, if you buy top tier fuel there's no need to buy fuel treatment. Again, just because some is good doesn't always mean more is better. Buy the cheap no-name gas and you very well may benefit from fuel treatment in a bottle. It's just more economical to buy the good gas and forget it.
I disputed the statement that injectors are self cleaning, some injectors may well need additional cleaners be used, the additive level in tier 1 is not enough to prevent corrosion of ethanol laced fuels in some injectors, in fact under certain conditions e.g seasonal use vehicles like boats, summer/winter cars, snowmobiles, etc it does little to prevent issues.
The additives that are being talked about here do work and I see their benefit.
If you run a new car with a plastic fuel tank strictly on tier 1 fuel and its driven daily then the fuel will probably keep the injectors in good shape for a long time.
If anyone is wondering if their injector type/model would benefit from additional additives just ask me, I have no problem providing info if I have it but in general if any of these conditions are present a bottle of Redline, Techron, etc every 3K or at least one a year (boats need a different rate, ask me) is going to be of more benefit than harm.
Unknown fuel quality use.
Metal fuel tank.
Used cars (a family members car where you know they buy shell on the corner every time doesn't count).
Lax fuel filter maintenance or it doesn't have one other than the one in the tank.
Low miles and low use, these can be one of the worst.
Multi valve engines with very fine holes in the nozzle.
Injectors with pintel valves.
Seasonal use vehicles.
Boat engines and E10 do not play well together, I do a boat load of marine injectors.
E-Tech, Optimax and Ficht injectors
Fuels with higher than 10% ethanol content, there can be problems even with E10 because even with E10 in high humidity climates phase separation in the tank (both storage and in the vehicle) can be a real issue.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Yes they all get ultrasonic even if I have to take them apart. Its true if you stick to brand name fuels you stand a better chance of getting high quality fuel with a decent amount of additives, I like Shell but all top tier should is fine.
This is the point I've been trying to make. I don't dispute engines need additives. I guess I shouldn't have called it snake oil. But in my experience, if you buy top tier fuel there's no need to buy fuel treatment. Again, just because some is good doesn't always mean more is better. Buy the cheap no-name gas and you very well may benefit from fuel treatment in a bottle. It's just more economical to buy the good gas and forget it.
I disputed the statement that injectors are self cleaning, some injectors may well need additional cleaners be used, the additive level in tier 1 is not enough to prevent corrosion of ethanol laced fuels in some injectors, in fact under certain conditions e.g seasonal use vehicles like boats, summer/winter cars, snowmobiles, etc it does little to prevent issues.
The additives that are being talked about here do work and I see their benefit.
If you run a new car with a plastic fuel tank strictly on tier 1 fuel and its driven daily then the fuel will probably keep the injectors in good shape for a long time.
If anyone is wondering if their injector type/model would benefit from additional additives just ask me, I have no problem providing info if I have it but in general if any of these conditions are present a bottle of Redline, Techron, etc every 3K or at least one a year (boats need a different rate, ask me) is going to be of more benefit than harm.
Unknown fuel quality use.
Metal fuel tank.
Used cars (a family members car where you know they buy shell on the corner every time doesn't count).
Lax fuel filter maintenance or it doesn't have one other than the one in the tank.
Low miles and low use, these can be one of the worst.
Multi valve engines with very fine holes in the nozzle.
Injectors with pintel valves.
Seasonal use vehicles.
Boat engines and E10 do not play well together, I do a boat load of marine injectors.
E-Tech, Optimax and Ficht injectors
Fuels with higher than 10% ethanol content, there can be problems even with E10 because even with E10 in high humidity climates phase separation in the tank (both storage and in the vehicle) can be a real issue.
Originally Posted By: Starman2112
Fair enough.
I admit I'm very fortunate to have gotten good fuel over the years, with a few glaring, problematic exceptions. Also, we do have a certain Top Tier supplier up here that happens to drop in tiny amounts of methanol in the winter in their E0, which makes ethanol look like a walk in the park. If I were stuck having to use that, I'd certainly be considering SI-1 maintenance doses.
Generally speaking, given that I get Top Tier fuel at no price penalty, and am stuck using a premium fuel on top of that, I hardly need to go hog wild and keep a bottle of Regane or SI-1 in my hand every time I stop at the gas station. It is interesting to note, though, that Shell has been talking about corrosion protection with their V-Power NiTRO+, and now Esso is on the bandwagon in their marketing up here, now, too.
Of course, you're right to be skeptical in the fuel additive aisle. It's disheartening to walk into a store section and find two or three useful products among two or three dozen useless ones.
Fair enough.
I admit I'm very fortunate to have gotten good fuel over the years, with a few glaring, problematic exceptions. Also, we do have a certain Top Tier supplier up here that happens to drop in tiny amounts of methanol in the winter in their E0, which makes ethanol look like a walk in the park. If I were stuck having to use that, I'd certainly be considering SI-1 maintenance doses.
Generally speaking, given that I get Top Tier fuel at no price penalty, and am stuck using a premium fuel on top of that, I hardly need to go hog wild and keep a bottle of Regane or SI-1 in my hand every time I stop at the gas station. It is interesting to note, though, that Shell has been talking about corrosion protection with their V-Power NiTRO+, and now Esso is on the bandwagon in their marketing up here, now, too.
Of course, you're right to be skeptical in the fuel additive aisle. It's disheartening to walk into a store section and find two or three useful products among two or three dozen useless ones.
Trav,
Thanks very much for your lengthy and highly informative post with the photos #4450162 - 07/05/17 08:26 AM
Very persuasive.
I am going to get some additive today following your advice below:
For used car I suggest a two prong approach, a good PEA cleaner like Redline, Gumout Regain (I suspect the orange high mileage may have more PEA), Techron All in One, possibly others for a full tank then Berrymans Chemtool (very cheap) to go after any remaining varnish deposits for the next tank, Berrymans is far more effective on these deposits.
Thanks very much for your lengthy and highly informative post with the photos #4450162 - 07/05/17 08:26 AM
Very persuasive.
I am going to get some additive today following your advice below:
For used car I suggest a two prong approach, a good PEA cleaner like Redline, Gumout Regain (I suspect the orange high mileage may have more PEA), Techron All in One, possibly others for a full tank then Berrymans Chemtool (very cheap) to go after any remaining varnish deposits for the next tank, Berrymans is far more effective on these deposits.
Last edited:
It is much easier to keep your fuel system clean by using Redline fuel cleaner, etc in a tank before every OCI, then trying to clean them up after years of mistreating your fuel system.
Very true but like Garak points out Shell and Esso are promoting the anti corrosion properties of their fuel so if you don't mind "pay as you go" then it probably does a good job.
As long as the majority of people keep using the cheapest swill available and accepting the reduction in engine performance over time as normal aging I wont be going out of business any time soon.
As long as the majority of people keep using the cheapest swill available and accepting the reduction in engine performance over time as normal aging I wont be going out of business any time soon.
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Originally Posted By: Starman2112
...Injectors are self-cleaning...
Never heard of self cleaning fuel injectors.
http://wardsauto.com/technology/toyota-advances-d4s-self-cleaning-feature-tacoma
Originally Posted By: Starman2112
...Injectors are self-cleaning...
Never heard of self cleaning fuel injectors.
http://wardsauto.com/technology/toyota-advances-d4s-self-cleaning-feature-tacoma
Listen to Trav!!!
I use Bardahl ALL-U-NEED Fuel system cleaner. I will be honest I have tried alot of cleaners I find this one works the best. I use it twice a year.
I have tried the Gumout and the Gumout regane, the regular gum out didn't do much and the Regane one messed up my oil.
I use Bardahl ALL-U-NEED Fuel system cleaner. I will be honest I have tried alot of cleaners I find this one works the best. I use it twice a year.
I have tried the Gumout and the Gumout regane, the regular gum out didn't do much and the Regane one messed up my oil.
I was skeptical about fuel system cleaner myself and wanted to see if it does anything. I've always been a fan of reline products so I went with their fuel cleaner.
Boy did I noticed a huge difference. The car was much more peppy than usual.
The biggest difference was how well it cleaned my upper cylinders. Here's a video on my current project: https://youtu.be/SkiQmG-cQXM
Boy did I noticed a huge difference. The car was much more peppy than usual.
The biggest difference was how well it cleaned my upper cylinders. Here's a video on my current project: https://youtu.be/SkiQmG-cQXM
Starman, be careful making claims based on your 33 years of personal experience. It is a common statement that I have run into many times before in my quality roles. A person would say that they have done something a thousand times without a problem in their career when I was investigating issues that arose in the company when the execution was 1500times a month. It is better to learn from other people's problems and applytheir best practices than to base it on your flawless past. I was in the same boat, talking about problems that I never encountered either through diligence or luck.
As I can't control my supply chain, I have historically used Techron or Regane once an OCI. I am now considering the addition of Berryman's into the rotation.
As I can't control my supply chain, I have historically used Techron or Regane once an OCI. I am now considering the addition of Berryman's into the rotation.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Very true but like Garak points out Shell and Esso are promoting the anti corrosion properties of their fuel so if you don't mind "pay as you go" then it probably does a good job.
As long as the majority of people keep using the cheapest swill available and accepting the reduction in engine performance over time as normal aging I wont be going out of business any time soon.
That's the problem. So many see cheap and are happy. I've also got an advantage in that most premium here, which the G37 uses, is E0 anyhow. Shell and Esso are close by, too, which makes life easy. I'm really lucky in that they both happen to be two of the stations most likely to drop the price first, as of late.
Very true but like Garak points out Shell and Esso are promoting the anti corrosion properties of their fuel so if you don't mind "pay as you go" then it probably does a good job.
As long as the majority of people keep using the cheapest swill available and accepting the reduction in engine performance over time as normal aging I wont be going out of business any time soon.
That's the problem. So many see cheap and are happy. I've also got an advantage in that most premium here, which the G37 uses, is E0 anyhow. Shell and Esso are close by, too, which makes life easy. I'm really lucky in that they both happen to be two of the stations most likely to drop the price first, as of late.
Originally Posted By: Starman2112
http://wardsauto.com/technology/toyota-advances-d4s-self-cleaning-feature-tacoma
Interesting. Thanks for the link.
Quote:
...Toyota advances its D-4S port- and direct-injection system with the technology’s installation in the new Tacoma midsize pickup……..
...The automaker believes it has solved the conundrum of carbon build-up on injectors with a new self-cleaning feature for D-4S, a technology that debuted 10 years ago on the ’05 Lexus GS 350 and ’06 Lexus IS 350…
“What we’re doing is we have a slit on the side of our injector and we’re blowing that carbon off,” Mike Sweers, the ’16 Tacoma’s chief engineer, tells WardsAuto here during the truck’s media preview. “If we tried to use just high pressure, using just the nozzle itself, you would clean the bottom of that nozzle.
“But since the carbon grows from the outside and comes around, you would still plug up that injector,” he adds. “So by cleaning on the outside of that, we get a clean injector all the time.”
Drivers may hear the self-cleaning taking place during a hot idle, and the process could last from 10 seconds to as long as 10 minutes, depending on driving patterns and the amount of build-up on the injectors.
“When you go into a hot-idle situation, the system is going to look at the time that it ran, the number of cycles the injectors went through, the temperature of the injectors and then it goes into a self-cleaning mode,” Sweers says. “Because we have the port injection, I can continue idling the engine without having any side effects.”
He compares the technology to a self-cleaning oven, as no additives are necessary...
http://wardsauto.com/technology/toyota-advances-d4s-self-cleaning-feature-tacoma
Interesting. Thanks for the link.
Quote:
...Toyota advances its D-4S port- and direct-injection system with the technology’s installation in the new Tacoma midsize pickup……..
...The automaker believes it has solved the conundrum of carbon build-up on injectors with a new self-cleaning feature for D-4S, a technology that debuted 10 years ago on the ’05 Lexus GS 350 and ’06 Lexus IS 350…
“What we’re doing is we have a slit on the side of our injector and we’re blowing that carbon off,” Mike Sweers, the ’16 Tacoma’s chief engineer, tells WardsAuto here during the truck’s media preview. “If we tried to use just high pressure, using just the nozzle itself, you would clean the bottom of that nozzle.
“But since the carbon grows from the outside and comes around, you would still plug up that injector,” he adds. “So by cleaning on the outside of that, we get a clean injector all the time.”
Drivers may hear the self-cleaning taking place during a hot idle, and the process could last from 10 seconds to as long as 10 minutes, depending on driving patterns and the amount of build-up on the injectors.
“When you go into a hot-idle situation, the system is going to look at the time that it ran, the number of cycles the injectors went through, the temperature of the injectors and then it goes into a self-cleaning mode,” Sweers says. “Because we have the port injection, I can continue idling the engine without having any side effects.”
He compares the technology to a self-cleaning oven, as no additives are necessary...
I'll admit that most additives I've added over the years were for possible performance improvements or preventative maintenance,instead of something is wrong I need to add something and see if that solves the problems. Chemtool Berryman B12 was that one fuel treatment that wowed me on a horrible running car. This was years ago, a 87 Olds 307 4 barrel car ran like [censored]. This thing stalled on me in traffic, intersection, just ran bad. Poored a can of Chemtool in and that car was great ever since. It was a 200k plus 80s carbed car however. I think people pass judgement on fuel cleaners based on they didn't feel a difference. If a car doesn't have an issue than nothing can be improved to notice a difference. That's my only experience of something truly working and this was almost 20 years ago when I was using Chemtool. I don't know who all else has old formulas but at the price and strength of Chemtool. I think every owner should give it a try.
Crisfix (Youtube car personality) has run a bunch of cleaners through his vehicles and conducted before/after pic via scope. I'm not going to comment on the results but check his channel if you're interested.
Last edited:
Chrisfix often looks for piston cleanliness in his videos. That is a flawed approach when judging one tank usages of FUEL additives.
If he wants to grade out piston cleaning he should review actual combustion chamber cleaners or soaks vs running an additive in gas and then focusing on how much apparent piston head removal there was of deposits. Injector spray before/after or intake/exhaust valve before/after is a better method of gauging effectiveness of in tank FSCs.
If he wants to grade out piston cleaning he should review actual combustion chamber cleaners or soaks vs running an additive in gas and then focusing on how much apparent piston head removal there was of deposits. Injector spray before/after or intake/exhaust valve before/after is a better method of gauging effectiveness of in tank FSCs.
Hyundai recommends TECHRON at every 5k oil change, so I do that.
I have started doing the GDI cleaner spray while the engine is running, that is very worthwhile in these dirty GDI engines.
I have started doing the GDI cleaner spray while the engine is running, that is very worthwhile in these dirty GDI engines.
- Status