London Fire Tragedy

[dkryan]

Having listened to the news since the fire at the apartment tower in Kensington, I am compelled to ask what I believe is an obvious question.

To preface that question, I will state I have zero experience as a firefighter.

I will also hope to deflect criticism (somewhat) by stating the job of "first responders" is likely seriously underpaid.

That said, I listen to Jazz FM on my Grace internet radio on a regular basis, hence, a lot of "local" London news at this end.

Numerous interviews of friends and family of the victims revealed they had been in contact via cellular with residents of that apartment tower. The fire started after 1p.m. London time. Several people said they were in contact with family and friends on various floors of that tower for up to three hours after the fire brigades had arrived.

Those residents indicated the smoke was too intense to evacuate via a stairwell (the only stairwell?).

My question is: what was the London Fire Brigade doing during those 3+ hours to rescue those trapped on the upper floors?

 

[Donald]

The issue I see is no basic fire alarms. Even a pull alarm that rings an alarm on each floor. And key is stairways. Many many people got out of the WTC because of well designed stairways.

 

[bioburner]

Ladder trucks only go so far. I don't know the issue of water supply either. Don't send in teams without being able to have backup teams with water. Why the fire progression? That may be issue of bad fire doors or someone tampering with to keep open. Improper construction without firewalls. Something that I know that happens on this side of the pond, someone cooking and I don't mean fish and chips. Yes there could have been rope teams put on the roof but I don't know the stability and its possibly going over. I am sure more fire fighters will add a few other items. My last year was 2005

 

[JC1]

From what I've seen on the local Toronto news, the building contractors didn't used approved fire proof materials. It was a gov't building and it appears like the contractor pocketed the money and skimped on using the right products and adhering to the building codes.

I hope they are put in jail.

 

[skyactiv]

I've told myself if I ever live in something 3+ stories tall, I will have a long enough rope, something to tie it to inside like a metal pipe wider than the window and the right gloves to slide down the rope. And I would be questioned for arson after saving my hide.

 

[Mr Nice]

Just like 9-11 in New York, the ladders only reach so high and once they fire started it was too late for the firefighters to do anything but turn on the hoses.

I have a feeling this was not an accident...

 

[bioburner]

Originally Posted By: skyactiv
I've told myself if I ever live in something 3+ stories tall, I will have a long enough rope, something to tie it to inside like a metal pipe wider than the window and the right gloves to slide down the rope. And I would be questioned for arson after saving my hide.

I request nothing over 3 stories if I stay in hotels. Couple bed sheets and your close enough to not break to many bones. Decent 1/2 inch rope is not that expensive and a simple climber belt and descent tools won't break $200

 

[ls1mike]

Originally Posted By: JC1
From what I've seen on the local Toronto news, the building contractors didn't used approved fire proof materials. It was a gov't building and it appears like the contractor pocketed the money and skimped on using the right products and adhering to the building codes.

I hope they are put in jail.


That is horrible. I read something just like that today.

 

[PeterPolyol]

No kidding. The minute they showed the building on the news I remember thinking "what is that thing made out of bbq starter?". The blaze was just absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
No kidding. The minute they showed the building on the news I remember thinking "what is that thing made out of bbq starter?". The blaze was just absolutely ridiculous.


Same here - - - no NFPA in the UK?!?!?!?

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted By: bioburner
I request nothing over 3 stories if I stay in hotels. Couple bed sheets and your close enough to not break to many bones.


How are you going to get the windows open? Down here, pretty much all hotel windows are sealed up (or not even openable) to prevent falls, and all of them are hurricane glass, which is basically bulletproof and unbreakable with hand tools.

 

[bioburner]

The same way I would stop any intruders. Have no idea how to get thru that issue when in a no arms allowed country unless I make a trip to a hardware store. Weakest point of a glass panel is at the edges.

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted By: bioburner
The same way I would stop any intruders. Have no idea how to get thru that issue when in a no arms allowed country unless I make a trip to a hardware store. Weakest point of a glass panel is at the edges.


That wont work on Hurricane glass. You will just have bullet holes. The glass doesn't break.

 

[plaguef]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: bioburner
The same way I would stop any intruders. Have no idea how to get thru that issue when in a no arms allowed country unless I make a trip to a hardware store. Weakest point of a glass panel is at the edges.


That wont work on Hurricane glass. You will just have bullet holes. The glass doesn't break.


Jackhammer technique. How many shots in one spot will this Hurricane glass withstand?

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Just like 9-11 in New York, the ladders only reach so high and once they fire started it was too late for the firefighters to do anything but turn on the hoses.

I have a feeling this was not an accident...


Agreed. Something this catastrophic doesn't start because somebody left toast in the break room toaster oven too long.

Are there any clues as to what caused this? Obviously having incorrect building materials does not help anything.

 

[andyd]

In MA, that place would have a fire detection/alarm system, sprinklers and a stand pipe the FD could hook up to a hydrant. Other countries, not so much?

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: bioburner
The same way I would stop any intruders. Have no idea how to get thru that issue when in a no arms allowed country unless I make a trip to a hardware store. Weakest point of a glass panel is at the edges.


That wont work on Hurricane glass. You will just have bullet holes. The glass doesn't break.


A piece of furniture rammed hard enough wouldn't work? Like the corner of a hard table or something?

I have zero experience.

 

[fdcg27]

I spent ten years as a volunteer firefighter in what was then a rural township.
I can tell you that if you roll up on a working structure fire, the chances of anyone who hasn't self evacuated are pretty grim.
In a typical structure fire, the fire hasn't vented through the roof by the time crews arrive the structure will be full of smoke and not survivable.
Yes, crews can and will make an entry with charged lines wearing SCBAs and others will vent the roof, but by the time the call is received and crews are on scene, in most cases anyone within the structure is already gone and the structure itself is already lost.
There was an academic study of fatal fires some some decades back in which it was concluded that fatal fires were most often the result of a failure of anyone to raise a prompt alarm.
Could this blazing tower have originated as a tiny kitchen fire where if someone had promptly called for help it might have been extinguished without loss of life?
Could this have been a kindled fire?
I don't know. I'm only speculating.

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: bioburner
The same way I would stop any intruders. Have no idea how to get thru that issue when in a no arms allowed country unless I make a trip to a hardware store. Weakest point of a glass panel is at the edges.


That wont work on Hurricane glass. You will just have bullet holes. The glass doesn't break.


A piece of furniture rammed hard enough wouldn't work? Like the corner of a hard table or something?

I have zero experience.


No. I have seen a person beat on hurricane glass with a sledge hammer. It cracks, but doesn't break. If plan A is to use a table leg, or "shoot" out the window with a gun, I would come up with plan B. The stuff is seriously strong.