New FRAM Racing Filters released at PRI

[Motorking]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: EricG
We have been using those for years in industrial applications. 200hp driven Sundyne BFW pump. We have stocked them since 1992, so they have been around since then!


Per the article linked above, these look to be a redesign with improvements. I think the new version has metal end caps for instance.

They have all had metal end caps since 2013. The new filters feature higher quality media so they can be used on the street. All new part numbers have silicone adbv and older part numbers will migrate to silicone as inventory is depleted.

 

[Motorking]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Thanks for the info Jay.

I don't know my filters that well, but it looks like the Fram xx8a / MC FL-1A size will not be included?

The bright orange color would look good on a bright orange classic car.


That would be the FRAM HP1, it will migrate to the new style filter when inventory is depleted. (Q2-Q3)

 

[Motorking]

Originally Posted By: PaleRider
when Fram refers to street performance, would this be "the" oil filter I`m looking for in a boosted application that see`s 100% street driving?


Depends. Have you modified the oil system to run higher oil pressures? If so, then yes. If not you can use the HP or the XG and be fine for your car. I run the XG8 on my 700 blown windsor on the street and screw on the HP1 when I am racing it.

 

[Motorking]

Just a couple things here boys
The flow test is run with 30w oil to the ISO test procedure. If your interested in exactly what is involved in the test I can post the protocol. It is the same test that all filters makers use. If you want to see it, email me at my email address below please.
Not sure who posted it but there is no Subaru that hits 140psi operating oil pressure. We are OE on Subaru and have pretty good knowledge of those boxers.
There are some runaway Hyundai and Kia 4cyls have pressure spike issues over 200psi and because of that Hyundai has released a filter (Mann) that resembles a racing filter in construction. We have improved out tapping plate on the 9688 to be good to 360psi on that model.
You be assured that all of these filters easily flow what any of the cars they are made for can output. The HP6 filter flows 22gpm and is frequently used (as are the WIX and Moroso counterparts) on remote mounts for cars that run extremely high rpms with modified oiling systems.

 

[miami993]

Originally Posted By: Motorking
Just a couple things here boys

You be assured that all of these filters easily flow what any of the cars they are made for can output. The HP6 filter flows 22gpm and is frequently used (as are the WIX and Moroso counterparts) on remote mounts for cars that run extremely high rpms with modified oiling systems.


Jay,
Is the HP20 in the ~20gpm as well?
Christian

 

[901Memphis]

Originally Posted By: Motorking

The flow test is run with 30w oil to the ISO test procedure. If your interested in exactly what is involved in the test I can post the protocol. It is the same test that all filters makers use.


You already know we are interested in that stuff, can you share it here or only via email? I have tried to get ISO stuff before but they cost money for the procedure

 

[Motorking]

Originally Posted By: miami993
Originally Posted By: Motorking
Just a couple things here boys

You be assured that all of these filters easily flow what any of the cars they are made for can output. The HP6 filter flows 22gpm and is frequently used (as are the WIX and Moroso counterparts) on remote mounts for cars that run extremely high rpms with modified oiling systems.


Jay,
Is the HP20 in the ~20gpm as well?
Christian


No, that one is 15gpm and nothing it screws on to is capable of flowing more than that even with a modified oil pump. Remember, the bearings are a restriction to oil flow so no matter what the oil pump is capable of flowing, the restriction to oil flow will be the ultimate determining factor in oil flow.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Originally Posted By: Motorking

The flow test is run with 30w oil to the ISO test procedure. If your interested in exactly what is involved in the test I can post the protocol. It is the same test that all filters makers use.


You already know we are interested in that stuff, can you share it here or only via email? I have tried to get ISO stuff before but they cost money for the procedure


+1 ... why not just post it up here so anyone interested can see what the "max flow spec" really means.

 

[dlundblad]

+2

I am definitely interested.

While I respect the ultra, the paint job leaves something to be desired. Sorry... Gold is ugly. JMO.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Motorking
Remember, the bearings are a restriction to oil flow so no matter what the oil pump is capable of flowing, the restriction to oil flow will be the ultimate determining factor in oil flow.


True ... but to add to that, the positive displacement pump will continue to force increasing oil volume through the bearings up to the pump's pressure relief setting. So the higher the pump's pressure relief setting (as in hi-pro racing pumps), then the higher the volume forced through the engine and full flow filter will be before the pump hits pressure relief.

Main reason "racing filters" like this exist is to ensure the oil filter doesn't create a large pressure drop due to higher than normal oil flow volume along with heavier oils used in racing applications. When an oil filter is "too restrictive" it causes the oil pump to hit pressure relief sooner, and that in turn cuts back on the total oil volume making it to the engine at high RPM.

 

[miami993]

Makes sense to me Zee0Six,
The Melling 10296 in my engine is even pushing more flow compared to the OEM GM above 6000rpm, and mine revs to 7500rpm.



Christian

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Motorking
Remember, the bearings are a restriction to oil flow so no matter what the oil pump is capable of flowing, the restriction to oil flow will be the ultimate determining factor in oil flow.


True ... but to add to that, the positive displacement pump will continue to force increasing oil volume through the bearings up to the pump's pressure relief setting. So the higher the pump's pressure relief setting (as in hi-pro racing pumps), then the higher the volume forced through the engine and full flow filter will be before the pump hits pressure relief.

Main reason "racing filters" like this exist is to ensure the oil filter doesn't create a large pressure drop due to higher than normal oil flow volume along with heavier oils used in racing applications. When an oil filter is "too restrictive" it causes the oil pump to hit pressure relief sooner, and that in turn cuts back on the total oil volume making it to the engine at high RPM.

 

[goodtimes]

In a simple discussion assuming no bypass, no gallery friction, and a perfectly sealed oil pump, oil flow in a car engine varies with rpm only. Any restriction like at the main bearings creates higher pressure at that interface, and flow stays the same. It is wrong that the flow decreases. If it decreased the oil pump would either go into bypass or hydraulic lock and the pump shaft would break. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
In a simple discussion assuming no bypass, no gallery friction, and a perfectly sealed oil pump, oil flow in a car engine varies with rpm only. Any restriction like at the main bearings creates higher pressure at that interface, and flow stays the same. It is wrong that the flow decreases. If it decreased the oil pump would either go into bypass or hydraulic lock and the pump shaft would break. Correct me if I am wrong.


In the LS oil pump flow charts posted above, the two Melling lines look like they are hitting the pump pressure relief where they go almost linear with RPM - especially the 10296. Those two Melling pump curves don't really show much internal pump "slip" because the graphs are basically linear until they knee over @6500 RPM to a constant flow at pump relief. The graphs also need the pump outlet pressure shown to fully understand what's going on.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Main reason "racing filters" like this exist is to ensure the oil filter doesn't create a large pressure drop due to higher than normal oil flow volume along with heavier oils used in racing applications. When an oil filter is "too restrictive" it causes the oil pump to hit pressure relief sooner, and that in turn cuts back on the total oil volume making it to the engine at high RPM.


How often do you think this ACTUALLY occurs?

Not "theoretically"...... ACTUALLY

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
The graphs also need the pump outlet pressure shown to fully understand what's going on.


Yes, in order to compare pumps, that is true. Otherwise, apples to oranges.

But even that data is slightly flawed unless you could simultaneously interpret 3 required data:
Pump Flow, pressure,and Engine flow.

At this point, you are assuming the upper end of the flow chart goes linear because it is hitting high pressure bypass, but you can't determine that for sure. Not enough data.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Main reason "racing filters" like this exist is to ensure the oil filter doesn't create a large pressure drop due to higher than normal oil flow volume along with heavier oils used in racing applications. When an oil filter is "too restrictive" it causes the oil pump to hit pressure relief sooner, and that in turn cuts back on the total oil volume making it to the engine at high RPM.


How often do you think this ACTUALLY occurs?

Not "theoretically"...... ACTUALLY


It certainly can happen in a racing situation where the engine is living near redline most of the time. Put a pretty restrictive oil filter on the car and it could cause the filter to go into bypass and the oil pump to hit pressure relief much sooner. If there was no possibility of it happening, there wouldn't be "racing filters" on the market.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
The graphs also need the pump outlet pressure shown to fully understand what's going on.


Yes, in order to compare pumps, that is true. Otherwise, apples to oranges.

But even that data is slightly flawed unless you could simultaneously interpret 3 required data:
Pump Flow, pressure,and Engine flow.

At this point, you are assuming the upper end of the flow chart goes linear because it is hitting high pressure bypass, but you can't determine that for sure. Not enough data.


As I said, that's why you also need the pump output pressure data in the graphed data (and know the pump relief setting) to know for sure. The flow curve wouldn't knee over so fast and sharp if it was due to pump internal slippage, so it's most likely due to pump relief pressure kicking in.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
It certainly can happen in a racing situation where the engine is living near redline most of the time. If there was no possibility of it happening, there wouldn't be "racing filters" on the market.


Still Not Likely, according to Jim Allen's report.

If there was any concern of that happening, then perhaps a dual filter (splits the total flow by half between 2 filters) would be the best solution.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
It certainly can happen in a racing situation where the engine is living near redline most of the time. If there was no possibility of it happening, there wouldn't be "racing filters" on the market.


Still Not Likely, according to Jim Allen's report.

If there was any concern of that happening, then perhaps a dual filter (splits the total flow by half between 2 filters) would be the best solution.


Jim Allen wasn't doing tests on a motor with a high performance, high volume oil pump. And if you go read his thread, there were times when he did make the filter go into bypass even with this low performance test vehicle. So on an engine that puts out much more oil flow, it makes it even more likely unless the filter has a higher bypass setting. And Jim never addressed the other part of the scenario of how the filter's flow resistance effects the pump hitting pressure relief more often at high RPM.

Yes, doing a dual filter would certainly take any concern out of the filter's resistance impacting bypass and pump relief issues. Or just use a "racing filter" if there is any concern that a normal filter is too restrictive to be used in racing conditions.

 

[miami993]

Hi Jay,
I did order the HP20 from Summit two weeks ago.
Summit do not know when they will have those HP20 available!!!
Ant info on availability???
Thanks in advance.
Christian