Netherlands to ban IC engines, and household NG

[Shannow]

http://energypost.eu/dutch-government-evs-hydrogen-cars-2035-phase-natural-gas/

All over time, but all cars by 2035 to be EV or Hydrogen.

And all homes to be disconnected from NG by 2050 (seems to indicate new homes starting virtually immediately)

 

[Danno]

This should be interesting, ordering popcorn now by the 50 lb bag.
If they are really serious, they should stop all NG exports as well.

 

[wemay]

The fits and starts of implementation will not stop similar moves across the globe.

 

[LoneRanger]

Are they going nuclear to generate electricity? How will relying solely upon renewable sources meet their demand? Bet consumer energy bills go through the roof there !!!

 

[Cujet]

Of course, the Netherlands has a fairly moderate climate, so in more remote areas, away from industrial waste heat, heat pumps do work well there. The vast number of windmills, and growing solar arrays provide quite a bit of their electrical power. One can see that for such a location, the "central planners" might feel such laws are "smart".

But cooking with propane/natural gas is often required, and food prep is very likely to be exempt.

As for forcing all drivers into EV's, good luck. Cheap EV's are incapable, and will remain so. Expensive EV's are capable, and utterly unaffordable for the Dutch. But, central planners don't care about that, they'e been ruining lives for centuries now.

 

[dlundblad]

Like I said before, this is why the electoral college exists.

We'd be right behind them otherwise.

 

[itguy08]

This whole "climate change" nonsense has to stop. Sure the Earth's climate is changing. It has since the Earth was formed. We used to be all covered in ice before man stepped foot on it. It will continue to change long after we are gone too.

There are probably many causes of it and simply citing the burning of carbon based fuels (fossil fuels are incorrect) is probably only a small component of it.
Consider the "climate change graph":

The consider this graph:

Perhaps we simply have too many people on the Earth and that the resources that they need to live (food and water) and the byproducts of their existence (CO2) are too great for the Earth. But the policy of encouraging people not to have kids or not to have more than 1 is something we don't talk about....

 

[NibbanaBanana]

I agree itguy08. The bottom line is that there's a finite amount of resources on the planet that just can't support an infinitely growing population. If it isn't fossil fuel it'll be something else.

 

[thunderfog]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
This whole "climate change" nonsense has to stop. Sure the Earth's climate is changing. It has since the Earth was formed. We used to be all covered in ice before man stepped foot on it. It will continue to change long after we are gone too.

There are probably many causes of it and simply citing the burning of carbon based fuels (fossil fuels are incorrect) is probably only a small component of it.
Consider the "climate change graph":

The consider this graph:

Perhaps we simply have too many people on the Earth and that the resources that they need to live (food and water) and the byproducts of their existence (CO2) are too great for the Earth. But the policy of encouraging people not to have kids or not to have more than 1 is something we don't talk about....


In one sentence you say blaming climate change on carbon based fuels is "probably only a small component of it", and then say it's the population spike and the resultant excess CO2 from resource use. This is contradictory.

I agree with the latter, not the former. There is little doubt that our contributions are playing a major role at this point. Arguments at this point are partisan politics talking, and nothing more.

Yes, there are other natural factors that play a role. But looking at a scale analysis of these shows the magnitudes to be far less than the human induced contributions. It's us, yo.

And just to note, I have a MS in Atmospheric Science and more than 15 years experience in the field. Not pulling rank, but I have an extensive background that includes a recent climate change talk at a local university.

 

[LeakySeals]

For decades we've seen American celebrities over in Africa feeding starving children, raising funds, digging wells. Propping up an unsustainable population. Now we hear the Giraffe may go extinct, maybe the elephant too. They fed them, kept them alive.. to do what when they grew up? poacher?

 

[HerrStig]

Never forget the number of scientists and shills like AL Gore who eat well so long as "climate change" can separate folks from their money.

 

[4WD]

One good AlGoreRhythm & blues is "A Tale of Two Houses" ... snopes

 

[sciphi]

Hmm, reduced carbon emissions from phasing out NG, and reducing the associated pollution from natural gas extraction? Seems okay to me.

The economic costs need to be weighed against the social costs of lost productivity because of pollution-caused health issues, worse quality of life for people affected by the pollution generated from fossil fuel extraction/use, and the persistent damage to the environment that lingers long after the fossil fuel extraction has ended.

We've externalized the costs of carbon for a long time. Making that social and environmental cost a part of the cost of carbon-based fuels needs to be done. Once that is done, we can make a better determination of the economic viability of carbon-based fuels.

Amazing how the same folks who advocate for more costly and better-made parts as a better value once the externalities of time and opportunity cost are factored in refuse to run similar calculations when it comes to energy sources.

 

[Kuato]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
This whole "climate change" nonsense has to stop. Sure the Earth's climate is changing. It has since the Earth was formed. We used to be all covered in ice before man stepped foot on it. It will continue to change long after we are gone too.

There are probably many causes of it and simply citing the burning of carbon based fuels (fossil fuels are incorrect) is probably only a small component of it.
Consider the "climate change graph":

The consider this graph:

Perhaps we simply have too many people on the Earth and that the resources that they need to live (food and water) and the byproducts of their existence (CO2) are too great for the Earth. But the policy of encouraging people not to have kids or not to have more than 1 is something we don't talk about....


Too many people... HEAR, HEAR!

 

[Ihatetochangeoil]

The volume of renewable electricity in 2009 was three times the volume of nuclear power; sounds good, huh? They also IMPORT more electricity than they GET from wind power. (13.8% IMPORTED) Nuclear power is 3.6% of their power grid, meaning the renewable is about 10.7% of their power, so what is the other 89.3%? Where does 89% of the power come from that is used in these cute little electric cars? Answer: COAL. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_the_Netherlands

They're being politically correct to the point of absurdity; which isn't too difficult since political correctness is absurdity.

The next thing they will ban is common sense, as if they haven't already since same sex marriage, prostitution, drug use, and euthanasia are all legal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands Read the last sentence of the second paragraph.

 

[simple_gifts]

Quote:

But the policy of encouraging people not to have kids or not to have more than 1 is something we don't talk about....


I encourage people not to drive 16mpg cars, but BITOG theology indicates we should not tell people how to live their lives.

Mindful use of energy is a good start. If you notices business does it because it makes sense.

 

[4WD]

Been there - but was just stunned by the cost of everything ...

 

[AlienBug]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
For decades we've seen American celebrities over in Africa feeding starving children, raising funds, digging wells. Propping up an unsustainable population. Now we hear the Giraffe may go extinct, maybe the elephant too. They fed them, kept them alive.. to do what when they grew up? poacher?


Wasn't expecting a "let the black kids starve to death" response in a thread about Dutch energy policy.

 

[fdcg27]

By 2050, the average age of the Dutch population will be high enough that there'll be few people with the energy to object, but then this is true of most of Western Europe as well as Putin's Russia.

 

[CT8]

The first world countries are not breeding and the government ponzi scheme is falling apart. look and the unfunded pensions.