Fram X2 Filters ?

[jthorner]

I'm familiar with the concerns about most Fram filters and in fact I share those concerns.

It looks, however, like the X2 is an entirely different and very heavy duty beast according to the information at Prelude Owners Group Filter Study

These are expensive (around $10 - $11) but might be an interesting alternative for OCI use.

John

 

[T-Keith]

The one I cut apart(3614) was better than the extra guard, but still not a good filter. It had a silicone ADBV, but it was still cheap and thin. The filter media was better, but it still had the cardboard end caps. The screen on the bypass valve is a joke.

There are alot better filters for less money.

-T

 

[cryptokid]

personally i would not consider any disposable oil filter that costs $10. is this fram which cost double that of a wox, and triple that of a motorcraft, going to provide 2x or 3x better filtering and or flow?

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by jthorner:
I'm familiar with the concerns about most Fram filters and in fact I share those concerns.
.........
These are expensive (around $10 - $11) but might be an interesting alternative for OCI use.

John

---

Whether it is a good filter or not, for that price you can get any of several different top quality filters that doen't say "Fram" on them, so why buy Fram?

****

 

[sbc350gearhead]

From the many pics, stories, and fram quotes.......the X2 uses metal endcaps, not cardboard. I am quite curious about the X2. Many people around here, use donaldson, fleetguard, baldwin, amsoil, etc, at 10 dollars plus, so to them, cost isn't an issue..........filtration, flow, and capacity are the most important things in an oil filter.

 

[Arved]

quote:

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Originally posted by sbc350gearhead:
...filtration, flow, and capacity are the most important things in an oil filter.

---

So is reputation. If I have to disect each and every filter before use to verify that FRAM hasn't pulled a fast one, and gone back to thier old ways, then what good is that filter? I have to destroy it to verify it's usable. The only way is if they stamp batch numbers on the filter. That's too much work when, for the same money, I can go pull a K&N, Mobil 1, Bosch, or any of a number of other filters that are known good quantities.

FRAM actually argues thier cardboard endcaps are superior. If anything, I expect them to use more cardboard in future designs, such as cardboard center tubes.

So are they hypocrits, or do they just think we're stupid?

The X2 is too little, too late, for too much.

- Arved
2000 Chrysler 300M
1999 Honda VT1100C3

[ February 17, 2004, 06:06 PM: Message edited by: Arved ]

 

[edwardh1]

The prelude oil filter site at the description of the base has this statement:
Surrounding the outlet hole on the interior is a flexible gasket (second picture) that overlays a series of holes where the oil enters the filter assembly. The gasket acts as a type of one way valve that only opens to let oil in through the holes to fill the assembly. When oil pressure drops (engine is turned off, etc.) the gasket returns to cover the holes preventing the oil in the whole assembly from leaking into the engine and down to the oil pan. The gasket is generally called an anti-drain back valve.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Isn't this completely wrong?
When the engine stops nothing stops the oil from draining out thru the filter element and out the center tube holes.
i though the anti drain back valve was not to keep the filter full but rather to prevent the oil in the engines passages above the filter from draining back thru the filter.
Someone help here.

 

[T-Keith]

quote:

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Originally posted by sbc350gearhead:
From the many pics, stories, and fram quotes.......the X2 uses metal endcaps, not cardboard.

---

Have a link to any? The XH-3614(smallest 3/4 filter) I cut apart had cardboard end caps. I have never seen any Fram filter with metal end caps, even their "racing" filter shows off the cardboard on the side of the box.

-T

 

[sbc350gearhead]

Arved.......I agree. I do not use frams (although I used them for many years), but I am still curious about the X2.

T-keith......Do a search. Someone posted pics of the X2, and others have posted fram tech support quotes, about why they use metal endcaps on the X2, but not on the lower cost filters (all B.S.).

 

[T-Keith]

Well I went looking for the filter I cut apart, and it turns out I was mistaked. The filter I had was a tough guard, but I did have an X2 in a XG-3600.

It's a used filter, so it's a little messy, but it still gives you a good idea. I'll have it up on my site soon.

It indeed does have metal end caps,

but there is a bit of cardboard around where the spring seals.

The center tube is held in place and the filter media is reinforced.

The ADBV is still very cheap and thin.

Interestingly, no screen on the bypass on this filter?

-T

[ February 17, 2004, 10:51 PM: Message edited by: T-Keith ]

 

[nthach]

quote:

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Originally posted by sbc350gearhead:
use donaldson, fleetguard, baldwin, amsoil, etc, at 10 dollars plus, so to them, cost isn't an issue..........filtration, flow, and capacity are the most important things in an oil filter.

---

I can get Fleetguards locally, $5 for gasoline engine apps that x-ref to a Fram...

 

[labman]

quote:

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Originally posted by edwardh1:
snip...
When the engine stops nothing stops the oil from draining out thru the filter element and out the center tube holes.
Snip...
Someone help here.

---

OK, the hole in the center tube leads up to the oil passages. Thus, the oil wants to run in it, through the media and past the ADBV down to the crankcase. If the ABDV is working, not only does the oil stay in the filter, it also stays in the passages above it. Thus any flow at all on a cold start up results in flow to all the wear surfaces. If the oil is too thick, it can bypass the filter and go directly to the crankcase.

 

[edwardh1]

Thanks labman
its now clear
except the last sentence - help some on that

 

[sbc350gearhead]

quote:

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Originally posted by nthach:

quote:

---

Originally posted by sbc350gearhead:
use donaldson, fleetguard, baldwin, amsoil, etc, at 10 dollars plus, so to them, cost isn't an issue..........filtration, flow, and capacity are the most important things in an oil filter.

---

I can get Fleetguards locally, $5 for gasoline engine apps that x-ref to a Fram...

---

I should have taken the time to clarify. I was refering to the high end filters from those companies......fleetguard stratopore.....donaldson syntec......baldwin HPG...etc. Those also have cheaper filters in the 5 dollar range as well, and although they look to be very good filters, probably aren't up to their high end stuff. Grease is the word, is posting the results of a few more high end filters, that should be interesting.

 

[T-Keith]

quote:

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Originally posted by T-Keith:
it turns out I was mistaked.
-T

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That's what I get for typing to fast.

I was mistaken.

-T

 

[ZiTS]

Some people will simply never trust or use FRAM, and that is their right. However, I do take exception when people keep harping on information that is inaccurate and even outdated. (Side note: I don't work for FRAM and have nothing to gain. I just wish people weren't so quick to judge.)
I am currently running a FRAM X2 on my wife's car. I have bought & cut open dozens of filters for her car (2000 Grand Am) and my car (2003 Focus). The X2 appears to be just as good, if not better, in build quality than quite a few of the other filters that are so highly praised on here. The one thing about the X2 that the detractors keep forgetting to mention is that the X2's main selling point is that it is designed for 7,000 mile OCI's. It also isn't any more expensive than Mobil 1, K&N, or other "top-tier" filters - at least in my neck of the woods. What difference does it make if I spend (for sake of argument only) $3 for a filter that needs replaced every couple thousand miles, or spend $9 for a X2, which is GUARANTEED for 7,000 miles? As far as the silicone ADBV goes - come on, guys. FRAM uses silicone, as it is superior to nitrile for extended use, but that still isn't good enough. Now you're going to say "it's too thin!"

Like I said, some people will never change their opinion of FRAM.
jthorner - in my opinion as someone who has cut open the X2 and is currently using it, it is a very good filter. My advice is that you purchase one for YOUR application, as well as whatever other filter you may be interested in, cut them open, and compare. You may have too spend a few more dollars for the sake of knowledge gained, but you will then be able to make the call for yourself.

[ February 19, 2004, 08:08 AM: Message edited by: ZiTS ]

 

[T-Keith]

Have you seen the difference between a Fram ADBV and a Champion one? The Fram is rediculously thin, and fits very loosly. The Champion is much thicker and fits tightly into both the filter end cap and the base plate. Like I said, not a bad filter, but there are better ones for much cheaper. The 7,000 miles thing is just marketing. I have no doubt that a Pure one or K&N would last just as long as the X2.

-T

 

[T-Keith]

This is why I don't like Fram's ADBV:

There is nothing stopping the silicone one from doing the same thing.

-T

 

[ZR2RANDO]

Some people will simply continue to trust or use FRAM, and that is their right.

Just had to do that...
I am on the list of folks who will never use them again, they are the only filters that cause startup noise on my truck.. Talk about marketing, Fram is still living off the reputation they had back in the 70's.
There are probably several filters that will handle longer OCI's just fine, I would be pretty hesitant to use the Pureone for that though as they do filter finer they should probably be used for SHORTER intervals, they would start forcing bypass earlier due to actually catching more debris quicker,,,

 

[ZR2RANDO]

Everybody back to your corners...
Zits, it is of course your right to use whatever filter you want to, you cut up the choices for your application and you choose your favorite. I know my hacksaw will never rust

T.Keith will do the same, so will I and who knows how many others that doubtless have read these pages and learned so much about filters from others with their own experiences..I think we have all learned that some companies use more than one mfgr for the entire line of filters (and retailers) by now. Checking on your own application is a very good point.
I know in my case that Fram filters directly contributed to startup noise on my truck for years, I read about problems with Frams, changed the filter (Fram out-AC in)only one day (did not change oil, just wanted to see the difference the filter made) and the noise was gone and has not returned. I can use any filter besides Fram and the noise does not occur...so I won't use Fram oil filters anymore myself.
It seems like a pretty general consensus is that you can get a filter that is at least as good as the FramX2 for less money so lots of people use whatever brand they see as better value for the $$$.
I agree that the Fram folks do pretty well at marketing---shelves are slam full of them at the xxmart stores, (and those X2s really have shiny pkging that really catches the eyes too) most folks just buy a filter and go home and change the oil..Folks that read these pages do way more homework on the issue than the majority of those people do so we make more educated purchases..
I'm sure those filters probably won't kill anybody's vehicles, but we all have our preferences...
Remember this is just discussions, we are all here to help out..constructive (not destructive) criticism is a good thing..

[ February 19, 2004, 01:29 PM: Message edited by: ZR2RANDO ]