Zorin OS

Paying for a Linux OS is crazy. Unless you need support.

My two (wife and mine) 2010 Lenovo laptops with dual core processors wizz along just fine on Debian 12 (Cinnamon).

I used to do the manual update/upgrade manually, when i remembered. With a little time and energy Debian updates itself daily (unattended-upgrades).
If you're running Debian Stable all you're going to get are security updates anyhow. I make my living on Debian and some Ubuntu and I will tell you confidently the Debian folks are pathological about stability. Thankfully. With that said, when they issue "point" releases (12.1, 12.2) there'll often be bug fixes; but not package version updates: That would not be "stable"!
 
If you're running Debian Stable all you're going to get are security updates anyhow. I make my living on Debian and some Ubuntu and I will tell you confidently the Debian folks are pathological about stability. Thankfully. With that said, when they issue "point" releases (12.1, 12.2) there'll often be bug fixes; but not package version updates: That would not be "stable"!
Why I like Debian. I value stability above the latest wiz bang newest features.
 
A different take: the problem with Debian Stable is bugs are not fixed either. If you're on KDE and have an issue, it will be years before that issue is resolved unless it is patched as part of a security update. If your software is availble in flatpak, then there is that option, but for KDE and many smaller utilities etc its just not feasible.

I don't mind debian for servers and do run it on mine, but for desktops I want something more fluid and up to date. It gets tricky finding that balance of stability and new releases. Ubuntu (halfway into a release) used to be my desktop goto before they messed up and started forcing snaps everywhere. I've been experimenting with rolling releases and have settled on Endeavour for the moment. So far so good but its only been a few months too.
 
A different take: the problem with Debian Stable is bugs are not fixed either. If you're on KDE and have an issue, it will be years before that issue is resolved unless it is patched as part of a security update. If your software is availble in flatpak, then there is that option, but for KDE and many smaller utilities etc its just not feasible.

I don't mind debian for servers and do run it on mine, but for desktops I want something more fluid and up to date. It gets tricky finding that balance of stability and new releases. Ubuntu (halfway into a release) used to be my desktop goto before they messed up and started forcing snaps everywhere. I've been experimenting with rolling releases and have settled on Endeavour for the moment. So far so good but its only been a few months too.
"Stable" means does not change. The behaviour of the system ought to remain as predictable and unchanging as possible through the support cycle of the release. If there was a bug and I accommodated that bug with workarounds in my bash scripts and cron jobs and then the bug is fixed, the behaviour of the application has changed and now all of my automations are broken; and that will in all likelihood affect the other networked systems. In that case the release of a bug fix is the problem.

Desktops are another thing and I do (usually) appreciate Ubuntu's slightly more aggressive posture on this; even for their Long-Term Support releases. It's no fun when an elderly neighbour asks why a button moved from "here" to "there" because there is a new version of some given application; and every now and again I've had new kernels or new NVIDIA drivers bork existing hardware.

It should also be noted that every few months or so Debian Stable'll get a point release (13.1, for example) that'll include some bug fixes. Upgrades are, of course, optional!
 
"Stable" means does not change. The behaviour of the system ought to remain as predictable and unchanging as possible through the support cycle of the release. If there was a bug and I accommodated that bug with workarounds in my bash scripts and cron jobs and then the bug is fixed, the behaviour of the application has changed and now all of my automations are broken; and that will in all likelihood affect the other networked systems. In that case the release of a bug fix is the problem.

That's why I said, "different take". I have never run into issues with bash/python/scripting, I'm talking about bugs in the UI apps. Think crashing X/Wayland server or other core UI apps you use every day. On a desktop, it's vital that this stuff gets fixed so Debian stable doesn't make the cut for me there.

And on the off chance there is a bug in something like a bash script then yes I still want that fixed ASAP as I tend to reuse scripts and I don't have the luxury of having the same exact quirky bug being shared across all my servers/systems. I want it fixed, it's just bad practice to have these kinds of workarounds laying around for long periods of time IMHO.

The proverbial straw for me was when I upgraded to HIDPI displays but wanted different scales for different sized displays, even though they had the same resolution. I couldn't get this going on debian 12, I don't remember all the details as it was a while ago but basically X11 didn't support what I was trying to do and there was a bug on Wayland leading to crashing.
 
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If you are using older hardware and seeking stability, like me, Debian is a very good choice. For the latest hardware Debian may not be the best choice.

I don't disagree, but often people forget that "stable" doesn't mean "it works". It just means it doesn't change :)

Another good option for those seeking more stability in a desktop OS is something like linux mint, based on a solid/stable foundation but does get updates to core apps and cinnamon etc.
 
If you are using older hardware and seeking stability, like me, Debian is a very good choice. For the latest hardware Debian may not be the best choice.
I wanted to run Debian on my newer HP Envy laptop but it didn't play nice with sound for some reason so I had to go with Fedora w/KDE Plasma. Now the latest release of Debian 13 might work with this setup, I might have to revisit Debian.
 
I don't disagree, but often people forget that "stable" doesn't mean "it works". It just means it doesn't change :)

Another good option for those seeking more stability in a desktop OS is something like linux mint, based on a solid/stable foundation but does get updates to core apps and cinnamon etc.
Mint is an excellent second choice for me except it's based on Ubuntu which is a commercial OS with a spin off free version which could dry up at anytime. Even Mint knows that and has an LMDE Debian based version I tried but talk about slow updates/upgrades...
 
Mint is an excellent second choice for me except it's based on Ubuntu which is a commercial OS with a spin off free version which could dry up at anytime. Even Mint knows that and has an LMDE Debian based version I tried but talk about slow updates/upgrades...

Ubuntu is open source, it has to be as it's built on debian and the GPL enforces it.

LMDE is just a test project, "in case", but there is no reason not to use LM just because its based on something you're worried might happen or not. I had used it from 4.x until about 2 years ago, that's a lot of time I got to benefit from it.

Your favourite "non commerical" distro might collapse as well. Nothing is guaranteed.
 
Mint is an excellent second choice for me except it's based on Ubuntu which is a commercial OS with a spin off free version which could dry up at anytime. Even Mint knows that and has an LMDE Debian based version I tried but talk about slow updates/upgrades...
Ubunutu is going to suddenly stop releasing a free version after 15+ years because of what, exactly?

I don't at all agree with the statement that it "could dry up at any time".
 
Ubunutu is going to suddenly stop releasing a free version after 15+ years because of what, exactly?

I don't at all agree with the statement that it "could dry up at any time".
I thought that comment was a little off-base, too; but this perfectly illustrates the chaotic balance between a lack of central control and central control. Distros come and go; and it's worst when one of them was counted on by millions of people, organizations and businesses who were trusting in it. I am looking at you, CentOS.

Being open source, of course, simply means that if Mark Shuttleworth decided to close up shop it would be entirely possible for Ubuntu to be forked and continued; a la Alma, Rocky and the myriad others that sprang up in the wake of CentOS.

I make my living on Debian and Ubuntu machines and have 100% faith in the former and only slightly less in the latter. So even if Ubuntu does vanish the world'd only really need another "dressed-up Debian". If the functioning anarchy of Debian somehow vanished we'd all be in trouble.
 
Been away from the computer for a while.

From Mint:

"What is LMDE?​

LMDE is a Linux Mint project which stands for "Linux Mint Debian Edition".

Its goal is to ensure Linux Mint can continue to deliver the same user experience if Ubuntu was ever to disappear. It allows us to assess how much we depend on Ubuntu and how much work would be involved in such an event. LMDE is also one of our development targets, as such it guarantees the software we develop is compatible outside of Ubuntu."

"Plan for the worst. Hope for the best"
 
Been away from the computer for a while.

From Mint:

"What is LMDE?​

LMDE is a Linux Mint project which stands for "Linux Mint Debian Edition".

Its goal is to ensure Linux Mint can continue to deliver the same user experience if Ubuntu was ever to disappear. It allows us to assess how much we depend on Ubuntu and how much work would be involved in such an event. LMDE is also one of our development targets, as such it guarantees the software we develop is compatible outside of Ubuntu."

"Plan for the worst. Hope for the best"
The other thing that is rarely mentioned with the Mint/Ubuntu relationship is that a large, large majority of Mint's packages just come directly from the Ubuntu repositories. This is a considerable drain on Canonical's resources and I have read a few times in the past that they do not appreciate that drain.
 
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