You hear about the VW/Audi recall???!!!!

[kam327]

Originally Posted By: Garak
All automakers set up their emissions systems and fuel economy programs to pass the actual tests, not necessarily to be what's "best" for the environment (whatever that might be) or for best real world fuel economy.


This is not about MPG. The cars emit up to 40 times more NOx when in consumers' hands than when being tested for EPA NOx emissions compliance.

 

[kam327]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
My aunt's 2013 VW Beetle TDI is supposedly affected by it. It got a recall letter earlier this year about needing to re-program the computer for emissions something or other. I took it in for the recall and the car gets the same mpg and has the same performance.

Why is this now coming out?


I don't understand this. If the car still passes smog without this defeat software and performs the same without it, why would they add it in the first place?

Aren't diesels exempt from smog anyway?


This is about NOx. Read the articles.

 

[bruno]

If the NY Times and CARB are involved it's probably [censored] !

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: kam327


This is about NOx. Read the articles.


I did read the article but it didn't say anything about a fix, so I am assuming the software update corrected it. If the car runs fine with the cheat removed, why did they ever put it in?

 

[javacontour]

True, but if you know a bit about engine tuning, you would recognize that if you can tune a leaner mix, you'll get better fuel economy.

But you'll also get higher NOx.

So while it violates emissions standards, it's quite plausible it was about having fuel economy to brag about.

Originally Posted By: kam327
Originally Posted By: Garak
All automakers set up their emissions systems and fuel economy programs to pass the actual tests, not necessarily to be what's "best" for the environment (whatever that might be) or for best real world fuel economy.


This is not about MPG. The cars emit up to 40 times more NOx when in consumers' hands than when being tested for EPA NOx emissions compliance.

 

[VNTS]

So when in emissions test mode, it emits less NOx and passes test?

So how does it know when the emissions test is being preformed?
When connected to the OBD port?

So in essense, the car performs better, gets better mpg and performance but is out of compliance on the Nox, so if I owned one of these cars, no [censored] way I am going to let them reflash mine because I wouldnt want to give up the better performance and mpg.
congrats to the Furher for coming up with a work around like this.

 

[DoubleWasp]

How could the Germans place human beings at risk of being exposed to toxic fumes? That's the last thing I ever would have expected from them.

 

[kschachn]

Never mind.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: VNTS
So when in emissions test mode, it emits less NOx and passes test?

So how does it know when the emissions test is being preformed?
When connected to the OBD port?


It would have to be, and would only be relevant to those states that actually measure tailpipe emissions. Here in Wisconsin they just interrogate your OBD system for codes - which this wouldn't throw. It must have two maps, one for testing and one for everyday driving.

 

[Doug051]

This recall only relates to diesels, which many don't even get emission test anyway. I bet this is mainly driven by those California tree huggers

Being that there was no mention to of a fix, do think VW will provide compensation or extended warranty of DPF/Emmissions systems? My guess...not, [censored]!

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: bruno
If the NY Times and CARB are involved it's probably [censored] !

CARB isn't bullsh!t about emission, they are death serious. They can fine any violator millions if not billions, and they have the power to ban any product, be it a car or a TV, for sale in the state of California.

California population is about 39 millions now, we have tremendous buying power and every company like to sell their products to Californian.

Think about it, if VW/Audi are prohibited to sell their vehicles in CA, they may have to fold their business in US.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: VNTS
... so if I owned one of these cars, no [censored] way I am going to let them reflash mine because I wouldnt want to give up the better performance and mpg.
congrats to the Furher for coming up with a work around like this.


Probably a common and not unexpected sentiment.

Perhaps the cars that folks are unwilling to fix will have to be bought back, or some other means taken to get them off the road, since they do not comply with applicable law.

It will be interesting to see where this goes.

 

[DoubleWasp]

On a serious note, I wonder how the old and new programming has effect on the durability of the DPF. What exactly was the old programming doing, and what does the new programming do?

Was it injecting less DEF? Was it recycling less? Details are very lacking.

One way or another, it's definitely wrong. Especially since its marketing campaign gave it every assurance their technology was "clean diesel" technology.

I wonder if it was those mobile emissions checkpoints that gave them away.

 

[LoneRanger]

From the EPA letter:

The switch (ecm software) senses whether the vehicle is being tested or not based on varoius inputs including the position of the sterring wheel, vehicle speed, the duration of the engine's operatoin, and barometric pressure. These inputs precisely track the parameters of the federal test procedure used for emission testing for EPA certification purposes. During EPA emission testing, the vehicles' ECM ran software which produced compliant emission results under an ECM calibration that VW referred to as the "dyno calibration" (referring to the equipment used in emissions testing, called a dynamometer). At all other times during normal vehicle operation, the "switch" was activated and the vehicle ECM software ran a separate "road calibration" which reduced the effectiveness of the emission control system (specifically the selective catalytic reduction or the lean NOx trap). As a result, emissions of NOx increased by a factor of 10 to 40 times above the EPA compliant levels, depending on the type of drive cycle (city, highway)

 

[BRZED]

So basically VW used not a a fully enabled emissions control system, but they came up with a functional "pass the emissions test feature." Wow, I wonder who at VW HQ had the impunity to sign off on deliberately violating the Clean Air Act, and how did those who hatched the scheme expect to not get caught? The fines alone could amount to 18 billion dollars.

 

[LoneRanger]

Any resulting fix will likely need to involve more regen cycles and increase the amount of soot in the high pressure EGR which will effectively shorten the DPF lifespan. Also they will probably have to retard the timing or run richer mixtures resulting in lower peak cylinder pressures, lower efficiency, more soot..... all to get less NOx.

This also explains why most TDI owners tend to get dramatically better fuel economy than the EPA sticker estimate, if the estimate was generated with the dyno calibration routine running in the software. I think one magazine got 51 mpg highway out of a newer Jetta TDI.

If I were a TDI owner, however, I simply would neglect to have the recall performed and keep the great mpg. It's not like TDI's are prolific. They probably account for 0.00001% of vehicles on the road, so any increased NOx emissions from so miniscule a portion of the nation's fleet is a non-issue.

 

[BRZED]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
I wonder if it was those mobile emissions checkpoints that gave them away.


That seems lilkely, considering the defeat device apparently performed flawlessly during offical emissions testing.

 

[E365]

VW USA pulled all their "Clean Diesel" videos from their YouTube channel.

http://jalopnik.com/why-did-volkswagen-delete-all-of-its-diesel-ads-from-yo-1731691453

Clean Diesel has always been [censored] anyway. Even for CO2 emissions, the 2015 Golf TDI couldn't compete with gasoline powered competitors from Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc.

 

[LoneRanger]

I bet right now there are tuners capturing the factory default ECU maps to have on hand to re-flash into cars of owners who get the mpg killing NOx recall done, who bring them to the tuner to get their mpg's back. LoL.

 

[Nick1994]

Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
I bet right now there are tuners capturing the factory default ECU maps to have on hand to re-flash into cars of owners who get the mpg killing NOx recall done, who bring them to the tuner to get their mpg's back. LoL.
If I had a newer TDI that's what I'd be getting done.