XP question- what's up with "system idle process"?

[Gary Allan]

Okay ..now my laptop (used mainly as a desktop) is a couple of years old ...which means that uncle Bill, in his partnership with software and hardware producers, has now choked my system with unneeded data labyrinths that turn a blazing cpu into an a slug. Now I'm back in the generation where 256meg of Ram was an upgrade ..but still.

Anyway ...yes, I have about 53 processes running and some are memory hogs ..but they've always, more or less, been there. The main problem appears to be that even if I have an app minimized, XP appears to stick it in a very deep and narrow closet. For example, I have Thunderbird and FireFox always up. Now when it does a rountine check for mail on the server, it appears that it yanks it from deep in the bowels of the computer and basically brings everything else to a standstill (almost) ..this will also happen with an active application that hasn't been used for a few minutes. The thing is, if I'm switching actively between the two applications ...they have no delays and are (sorta) "just below the surface" and ready to go. Leave one idle for too long ..and some lame computer janitor starts tidying up and make it a real pain to work with. When you look at the Task Manager ..the idle process is taxing the cpu the most virtually 100% of the time. What is the point of taxing the cpu to free up the cpu?? This isn't like regen braking?

How does one manage this idle process ..or why shouldn't I want to slap this annoying utility (that seems to think it's doing me a favor) around?

 

[55Test]

Time for a format and reinstall maybe? Might be time to check and turn off some services. XP by default turns on a lot of services that aren't needed and take up a bunch of memory. Take a look at this here webpage.

http://majorgeeks.com/page.php?id=12

 

[1sttruck]

Not only XP, but almost all programs seem to install with defaults of all sorts of processes running, some to let you know if there are too many processes running that monitor other processes. I spent some time looking at every process, verifying it's need against a few web pages, look at what's running after I install a new program, and end up turning lots of stuff off. I need to use more care than most as I'm running XP with an old 333 Mhz PII and 256M of RAM. As an example I just downgraded from Norton 2005 back to 2002 as there were just too junk running.

It's a habit I learned at work while trying to improve PC reliability and performance, and it seems to work.

 

[CincyGTS]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gary Allan:
Okay ..now my laptop (used mainly as a desktop) is a couple of years old ...which means that uncle Bill, in his partnership with software and hardware producers, has now choked my system with unneeded data labyrinths that turn a blazing cpu into an a slug. Now I'm back in the generation where 256meg of Ram was an upgrade ..but still.

Anyway ...yes, I have about 53 processes running and some are memory hogs ..but they've always, more or less, been there. The main problem appears to be that even if I have an app minimized, XP appears to stick it in a very deep and narrow closet. For example, I have Thunderbird and FireFox always up. Now when it does a rountine check for mail on the server, it appears that it yanks it from deep in the bowels of the computer and basically brings everything else to a standstill (almost) ..this will also happen with an active application that hasn't been used for a few minutes. The thing is, if I'm switching actively between the two applications ...they have no delays and are (sorta) "just below the surface" and ready to go. Leave one idle for too long ..and some lame computer janitor starts tidying up and make it a real pain to work with. When you look at the Task Manager ..the idle process is taxing the cpu the most virtually 100% of the time. What is the point of taxing the cpu to free up the cpu?? This isn't like regen braking?

How does one manage this idle process ..or why shouldn't I want to slap this annoying utility (that seems to think it's doing me a favor) around?

---

The system idle processes are at 100% pretty much anytime the machine is idle, that's why they're called system idle processes, mainly minor maintenance functions going on.

The number of processes you describe sounds normal for XP.

You can go digging around in the services panel for services to turn off but I wouldn't advise it unless you know what you're doing.

It kind of sounds like your machine is having some memory issues, probably paging programs to/from the disk, how much memory do you have? most manufacturers really scrimp on memory for notebooks.

 

[Matt_S]

It's a common misconception that the "System Idle Process" is actually a real process. That "process" is merely the percentage of CPU idle time. It does not mean that the CPU is actually being used. It's not an actual process.

If you want proof, take note of how fast the CPU fan is spinning on a computer with a thermostatically controlled fan (most major name brand PC's these days). If the CPU is REALLY at 100% (like that grid.org application Razl posted will do), the fan will go nuts. If not, the fan will spin slowly or not at all.

 

[Gary Allan]

I've got 256mega of ram ..it's a PIV 1.6ghertz cpu.

Like just going to control panel to verify this information brought the "flashlight" out looking for it. This is the way it is for almost everything off of the START menu. If I decide to play a few rounds of Solitare ..but am active in an IM application ..or using any other application ..everything is absolutely fine ..but if I just play Sol ..and leave the other app (for not all that long) ...then XP seems to tuck it away for no good darn reason ..even if it's still "up".

There is a severe amount of propagation delay when accessing an unused application. It can be "in front" (on top) ..but if it's not actively being used ...it get tucked away. I just don't see why it does this. There's no refreshing of the video image. Sure the diplay is being refreshed ..but it's the same data.

How many pages deep is this thing sending stuff in virtual memory?? When I wake up a program ..the hd clicks away like I'm doing a full disk search for something.

Anyway ..this appears to have no simple solution. I had blamed it on spyware and adware...and MS Beta spyware software eliminated all the nasties ..but before I ran it, I had 51 running processes ..when I was done installing it ..I had 53. So I essentially swapped nasty memory hogs for friendly mem hogs.

Even if I unload all the unnecessary stuff (NAV, Yahoo IM, etc.) this is still an issue. That is, there appears to be no relief from the malaze that seems to set in on my computer.

I was hoping that there was a "turn your head and cough" type remedy for this. There apparently isn't. In the past, evolutions in cpu speed, ram, more advanced (yeah, right-less problematic) OS, and the need for larger hard drives usually made it a no brainer to upgrade ..but now we're at the point of a diminishing rate of return for processor speed (plus I'm not ante-ing up for a new laptop).

 

[Fatal0E]

May be virus and or spyware problem, the microsoft antispyware program doesnt catch very much.

goto http://housecall.trendmicro.com and check for virus

get adaware www.lavasoftusa.com and use it for spyware

get spybot search and destroy www.safer-networking.org and use it for spyware

get the free trial of spysweeper from www.webroot.com for spyware, this will stay running in background all the time, just uninstall it after you clean up your computer

 

[CincyGTS]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Matt_S:
It's a common misconception that the "System Idle Process" is actually a real process. That "process" is merely the percentage of CPU idle time. It does not mean that the CPU is actually being used. It's not an actual process.

If you want proof, take note of how fast the CPU fan is spinning on a computer with a thermostatically controlled fan (most major name brand PC's these days). If the CPU is REALLY at 100% (like that grid.org application Razl posted will do), the fan will go nuts. If not, the fan will spin slowly or not at all.

---

True, but the CPU never really sleeps, it needs to service hardware/software interrupts and the like, it's a catch-all, the fan thing is a good note; whenever i kick off a program compile it takes a short while and the fan starts kicking in hard.

Kind of reminds me of the bogus 2'nd processor on machines equipped with an Intel chip with hyper-threading.

256 Meg of Memory for XP is a miniscule amount of RAM, the machine I use at work has 1GB currently (which is a little more than enough for the work I do)

 

[kreigle]

quote:

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Originally posted by CincyGTS:

256 Meg of Memory for XP is a miniscule amount of RAM, the machine I use at work has 1GB currently (which is a little more than enough for the work I do)

---

256 meg is the BARE MINIMUM for running XP. XP really needs at least 512mb to function properly.

 

[tmorris1]

I would say you need more memory if you are going to run multiple apps at once. I would run Adaware to look for spyware. Clean out your temporary internet files etc and then run disk defragmenter. After years of use your hard drive is probably very fragmented which slow down performance. The hard drive thrashing is because you are low on RAM so Windows uses your hard drive for extra RAM (a page file). It will put things that aren't being used immediately in the page file. That is why it is slow when you click on a app that hasn't been run for a while because it doesn't have it in RAM, so it has to load it from the Hard drive page file. If your hard drive is fragmented very bad it will slow this process down considerably. Its not XP's fault.

Like others have suggested, it is a good thing to have the idle process taking 99-100% of processing time. That means that you system is free and there isn't some other process hogging CPU time. Your bottleneck is memory and hard drive I/O speed.

 

[Gary Allan]

We it appears that slowing the cpu down has eased this issue a bit. I left the system idle for about 2 hours and was able to swap between my tabbed web pages with minimal delay. It really doesn't make sense to me.

That setting, btw, was in the power managment utiility ....

Yes, memory is relatively cheap ..and I believe that I can go to 1 gig ..or at least 512meg ..so that will be my next move. I have defraged the hd a few times ..but not recently. Disk Cleanup didn't do much for it ...so we do appear to be choked with the ram issue.


Thank you for your time!

 

[Starbreaker666]

Google a nifty little program called End it all 2. IT hink it's all 1 word though. It is a fancy task manager that lets you kill ALL absolutly unneccessary prorgams to save memory space.

 

[michaelc80]

quote:

---

Originally posted by tmorris1:
I would say you need more memory if you are going to run multiple apps at once. I would run Adaware to look for spyware. Clean out your temporary internet files etc and then run disk defragmenter. After years of use your hard drive is probably very fragmented which slow down performance. The hard drive thrashing is because you are low on RAM so Windows uses your hard drive for extra RAM (a page file). It will put things that aren't being used immediately in the page file. That is why it is slow when you click on a app that hasn't been run for a while because it doesn't have it in RAM, so it has to load it from the Hard drive page file. If your hard drive is fragmented very bad it will slow this process down considerably. Its not XP's fault.

Like others have suggested, it is a good thing to have the idle process taking 99-100% of processing time. That means that you system is free and there isn't some other process hogging CPU time. Your bottleneck is memory and hard drive I/O speed.

---

Agreed. Memory is cheap-get some and stuff it as full as you can.

Keep in mind that laptops tend to be slower than desktops anyway.

Take a look at your power management settings and adjust them if need be. I don't like turning off my hard drive if I'm plugged in. If the power management settings are set to short it could also cause a similar issue.

To access the PM settings right click on the desktop and left click on Properties. Select the Screen Saver tab and click the Power button.

 

[jsharp]

quote:

---

Originally posted by CincyGTS:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gary Allan:
Okay ..now my laptop (used mainly as a desktop) is a couple of years old ...which means that uncle Bill, in his partnership with software and hardware producers, has now choked my system with unneeded data labyrinths that turn a blazing cpu into an a slug. Now I'm back in the generation where 256meg of Ram was an upgrade ..but still.

Anyway ...yes, I have about 53 processes running and some are memory hogs ..but they've always, more or less, been there. The main problem appears to be that even if I have an app minimized, XP appears to stick it in a very deep and narrow closet. For example, I have Thunderbird and FireFox always up. Now when it does a rountine check for mail on the server, it appears that it yanks it from deep in the bowels of the computer and basically brings everything else to a standstill (almost) ..this will also happen with an active application that hasn't been used for a few minutes. The thing is, if I'm switching actively between the two applications ...they have no delays and are (sorta) "just below the surface" and ready to go. Leave one idle for too long ..and some lame computer janitor starts tidying up and make it a real pain to work with. When you look at the Task Manager ..the idle process is taxing the cpu the most virtually 100% of the time. What is the point of taxing the cpu to free up the cpu?? This isn't like regen braking?

How does one manage this idle process ..or why shouldn't I want to slap this annoying utility (that seems to think it's doing me a favor) around?

---

The system idle processes are at 100% pretty much anytime the machine is idle, that's why they're called system idle processes, mainly minor maintenance functions going on.

The number of processes you describe sounds normal for XP.

You can go digging around in the services panel for services to turn off but I wouldn't advise it unless you know what you're doing.

It kind of sounds like your machine is having some memory issues, probably paging programs to/from the disk, how much memory do you have? most manufacturers really scrimp on memory for notebooks.

---

What he's seeing is perfectly normal. The CPU column shows the percentage of time the CPU spent on a given task vs. others since the last update. When you do other things the System Idle Process percentage will fall and the others will increase. It all makes sense because that's the process the OS is running not running anything else.

Just so there's no confusion, the bottom figure on the outside of the window showing "CPU Usage X%" tells you the total CPU usage.

 

[Gary Allan]

Yes, I figured out (finally) that the amount the idle process was active isn't the % of cpu useage. It still bothers me. I used disk cleanup and defraged ..it's better ...but still lame.

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by Gary Allan:
I used disk cleanup and defraged ..it's better ...but still lame.

---

That's because it's still Windows

 

[04SpecV]

quote:

---

Originally posted by XS650:

quote:

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Originally posted by Gary Allan:
I used disk cleanup and defraged ..it's better ...but still lame.

---

That's because it's still Windows

---

Get more ram or a different Operating System

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

Yes, start at 512MB like was suggested. At my job, our standard desktop spec is 1GB of RAM. By the time XP loads with the latest SP's, then the A/V, PestPatrol Corp Edition, Office installation, Misc terminal apps/fonts, domain-level authentication, Novell's ZenWorks client...220MB RAM is used up. With only 256MB, the PC will run into weird Explorer.exe errors and incredible slowness.

Assuming no spyware junk has lodged itself deep in your system, bumping to 512MB will substantially reduce paging. Do run CCleaner.exe from http://www.ccleaner.com then defrag the hard disk, then reboot. Your PC will feel like new with these 3 "tried and true" steps!