Worst Soviet Fighter

[billt460]

Even Hitler was smart enough to put a bullet through his head when he finally learned how to spell "loser". Putin has destroyed the Russian economy. (Sanctions are killing Russia). The people are fed up with him. Young draft worthy men are going into hiding to avoid this mess that he, and he alone created.

There is no more, "Russian Patriotism". (Not that there was much in the first place). And he has made himself a bigger world outcast than Idi Amin. No one is going to want anything to do with him.

He is totally finished as a leader on the world stage. He's costing the Russian oligarchs billions of dollars in cash and seized property. They can't operate anywhere any longer. All because of him, and his stupid, selfish actions.

Anyone coming in behind him is going to have a hell of a mess to clean up in the homeland. They are not going to have the time, money, or manpower to be thinking about any type of expansionism.

At this point Russia is basically a car stuck in the garage with no gas and 4 flat tires. That's no way to start planning where you're going to move to next.

Yeah, he's got nukes. And so do a dozen or more other nations that have goofballs manning the buttons. The bulk of which don't like us.

 

[edyvw]

Even Hitler was smart enough to put a bullet through his head when he finally learned how to spell "loser". Putin has destroyed the Russian economy. (Sanctions are killing Russia). The people are fed up with him. Young draft worthy men are going into hiding to avoid this mess that he, and he alone created.

There is no more, "Russian Patriotism". (Not that there was much in the first place). And he has made himself a bigger world outcast than Idi Amin. No one is going to want anything to do with him.

He is totally finished as a leader on the world stage. He's costing the Russian oligarchs billions of dollars in cash and seized property. They can't operate anywhere any longer. All because of him, and his stupid, selfish actions.

Anyone coming in behind him is going to have a hell of a mess to clean up in the homeland. They are not going to have the time, money, or manpower to be thinking about any type of expansionism.

At this point Russia is basically a car stuck in the garage with no gas and 4 flat tires. That's no way to start planning where you're going to move to next.

Yeah, he's got nukes. And so do a dozen or more other nations that have goofballs manning the buttons. The bulk of which don't like us.

Only 34 countries around the world imposed sanctions on Russia. Situations like this always surface parasites that see opportunity.
As for Russian young people, they are bailing out. Russia was demographic catastrophe before this. Putin allowed young people to leave. It is like pressure cooker, you allow young people to leave, you released pressure.
Don’t forget, Russians are really good in suffering. It is a poor country. Forget St. Petersburg, Moscow, other parts are horrible. Sanctions cannot do much there.

 

[billt460]

Only 34 countries around the world imposed sanctions on Russia. Situations like this always surface parasites that see opportunity.
As for Russian young people, they are bailing out. Russia was demographic catastrophe before this. Putin allowed young people to leave. It is like pressure cooker, you allow young people to leave, you released pressure.
Don’t forget, Russians are really good in suffering. It is a poor country. Forget St. Petersburg, Moscow, other parts are horrible. Sanctions cannot do much there.

It's not so much the peons that are being hurt by the sanctions, (they are). It's the billionaire oligarchs. They are the ones who put, and keep Putin in power.

Since the collapse of the former Soviet Union, along with the introduction of capitalism to the Russian economy, the Russian government has an internal power structure that's not much different than the Italian / American Mafia. Putin is their, "Don" so to speak.

When the Don doesn't perform to the liking of the various cappos and other hierarchy, they usually end up face down in the street. (Think Paul Castellano / John Gotti here).

As I said, they can't operate any longer. Certainly not the way they were used to. Not only that, their multi million dollar yachts and private jets are being seized left and right. As are many of their lavish homes in many parts of the world.

They're the least happy of all with Putin, and his stupid antics. Because they're the ones who are really paying the price for it. And sooner or later Putin is going to find out just how PO'd they really are.

Again, just like the mob, those who put you in power can just as easily take you out. He thought this invasion was going to be a cake walk. It's proven to have been anything but. Putin is on borrowed time.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Russian war mentality has always been about quantity over quality going all the way back to the Kievan Rus. WWII was a big testament to that. The T-34 was heavily outmatched by the German Panzers, but when you outnumber the Panzers 10-15:1 on the battlefield, you can overwhelm them with shear numbers. They're that way even with their own men. You keep feeding bodies into the meat grinder because you have more bodies than they have bullets so you eventually overwhelm them.

There are areas where that mentality works. Some areas require quality and precise craftsmanship to be effective though which is where the Russians frequently fall short. Nuclear is a good example of where you can't cut corners in favor of speed and cost as it sets the stage for events like Chernobyl to happen.

 

[edyvw]

Russian war mentality has always been about quantity over quality going all the way back to the Kievan Rus. WWII was a big testament to that. The T-34 was heavily outmatched by the German Panzers, but when you outnumber the Panzers 10-15:1 on the battlefield, you can overwhelm them with shear numbers. They're that way even with their own men. You keep feeding bodies into the meat grinder because you have more bodies than they have bullets so you eventually overwhelm them.

There are areas where that mentality works. Some areas require quality and precise craftsmanship to be effective though which is where the Russians frequently fall short. Nuclear is a good example of where you can't cut corners in favor of speed and cost as it sets the stage for events like Chernobyl to happen.

Actually, their MIRV technology and generally missile technology from the Cold War is on par if not better than the Western counterparts (MIRV especially).
They were always good in that. They are still good in that part, party because we paid for it.

 

[john_pifer]

Actually, their MIRV technology and generally missile technology from the Cold War is on par if not better than the Western counterparts (MIRV especially).
They were always good in that. They are still good in that part, party because we paid for it.

I had actually read that their ICBM accuracy was inferior to ours, which is why they always needed to make their warheads larger, so that they could still kill the target.

 

[edyvw]

I had actually read that their ICBM accuracy was inferior to ours, which is why they always needed to make their warheads larger, so that they could still kill the target.

I wouldn’t bet on that. That is regulated by various arms treaties in order to preserve MAD. But, I personally think that corruption, which is national sport, affected their nucleus forces.

 

[RDY4WAR]

The USSR always trailed the USA in nuclear armament, particularly ICBMs. They had very few of them, and what they had wasn't accurate. They had a bunch of short to medium range missiles though. That was the whole reason for allying with Cuba and the Cuban missile crisis. They needed a foothold near our borders to use their short range missiles.

 

[edyvw]

The USSR always trailed the USA in nuclear armament, particularly ICBMs. They had very few of them, and what they had wasn't accurate. They had a bunch of short to medium range missiles though. That was the whole reason for allying with Cuba and the Cuban missile crisis. They needed a foothold near our borders to use their short range missiles.

The Cuban missile crisis happened in 1962. At that time, no side had a properly capable ICBM, and Russians had an advantage bcs. at that time, their space program, which had direct consequences on ICBM technology, was ahead of the US program. The reason for such a huge investment in space programs was ICBM technology. The US did not overtake the Russian program pretty much until after the death of Sergei Korolev in 1966.

The Cold War ended with more warheads on the USSR side, better MIRV technology, and more mobile systems. Their nuclear program was one of the very few programs that was always appropriately funded. They also had a larger bioweapons program, more WMD's, more enriched uranium, plutonium etc.
This is not surprising. The question is: where do you stop developing warheads that pretty much serve as deterrents? Those are weapons that guarantee MAD, and there is always other stuff that are higher priority. For Russians, nuclear weapons have much higher significance than for us. The reason is that their power is based on nuclear power. That is the only way Russia can be a member of an exclusive club of powers. Other than that, as John McCain said, they are gas station pretending to be a country. So, their over the top investment in the nuclear program is not at all surprising.

 

[javacontour]

Russians build cheap loose heavy junk because it's what they can afford and the post war brain drain was very real.

And FYI... the pen story is BS marketing. We didn't use pencils in space because floating graphite particles are a very bad idea. I

Not only that, apparently the Soviets ordered 100 of the same pens with 1000 ink refills.

Fact or Fiction?: NASA Spent Millions to Develop a Pen that Would Write in Space, whereas the Soviet Cosmonauts Used a Pencil

The problem of weightless writing was not solved by either Soviet central planning or good old American sub-contracting, but by a private investor and a good idea

www.scientificamerican.com

 

[Revving2Redline]

I had actually read that their ICBM accuracy was inferior to ours, which is why they always needed to make their warheads larger, so that they could still kill the target.

Sounds like why people carry .45acp over 9x19 parabellum.

 

[Revving2Redline]

Just having a shiny-squirrel moment....what's gonna happen in Chernobyl when they need to cover that dome to keep the radiation in check? My understanding was eventually that would have to be covered again?

 

[billt460]

Just having a shiny-squirrel moment....what's gonna happen in Chernobyl when they need to cover that dome to keep the radiation in check? My understanding was eventually that would have to be covered again?

I thought they built that huge, "Rolling Quonset Hut" on rails to cover it? After the giant sarcophagus started falling apart?

 

[JimPghPA]

Yes. But any masterpiece is crap if not properly supported by infantry and combined arms. Granted, they were Leo2A4's, but the Turks lost a lot of them in Northern Iraq during their incursion a few years back. I don't know if a Russian T-90M is a masterpiece, but it is a viable, good tank wasted when sent off alone or in distended columns with few infantry guarding their flanks...

And control of the air space above it !!!!!

This brings a few things to my mind. Like how important it was in one WWII battle for the weather to clear so the Allies could destroy the German tanks from the air.


And I'm sure that US military intelligence is well aware of the necessity of controlling the air above tanks and I'm wondering what the United States is going to do in that regard when the American Abrams tanks are given to Ukraine?

 

[RooflessVW]

I'm wondering what the United States is going to do in that regard when the American Abrams tanks are given to Ukraine?

Pilots are being evaluated on the F-16 and Ukraine and France are in talks regarding France's stored Mirage fighters.

 

[edyvw]

Pilots are being evaluated on the F-16 and Ukraine and France are in talks regarding France's stored Mirage fighters.

F16 is an option, but FOD is a problem. @Astro14 can pitch in more. But, I am not sure it is best option considering “facilities “ UKR is using.
However, something has to be done. There are not much MIG29’s left elsewhere, except Serbia, and that is politically infeasible to do.

 

[Astro14]

F-16 needs a cleaner ramp than most with that low intake, true.

It is much more a question of political viability than fighter/facility suitability.

 

[IndyIan]

Russian war mentality has always been about quantity over quality going all the way back to the Kievan Rus. WWII was a big testament to that. The T-34 was heavily outmatched by the German Panzers, but when you outnumber the Panzers 10-15:1 on the battlefield, you can overwhelm them with shear numbers. They're that way even with their own men. You keep feeding bodies into the meat grinder because you have more bodies than they have bullets so you eventually overwhelm them.

There are areas where that mentality works. Some areas require quality and precise craftsmanship to be effective though which is where the Russians frequently fall short. Nuclear is a good example of where you can't cut corners in favor of speed and cost as it sets the stage for events like Chernobyl to happen.

Actually the germans only made better tank designs far to late into the war. Russian T-34's had things like sloped front armour, where for some reason the germans stuck with nearly vertical front armour until the Panther, which was far to late to matter. German tanks were better made and had some better features like radios, but required more men and maintenance, and were slow.
Germany shipped its tanks to Russia in the 30's to test them and at first the russian military thought germany must hiding more modern designs from them, as these were slow, heavy, complicated and had big slabs of rather thin vertical armour to conveniently aim at.
The tiger was effective with its thick vertical armour and devastating gun but it was so heavy and expensive to build that it couldn't be made in numbers to matter either.

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

And control of the air space above it !!!!!

This brings a few things to my mind. Like how important it was in one WWII battle for the weather to clear so the Allies could destroy the German tanks from the air.


And I'm sure that US military intelligence is well aware of the necessity of controlling the air above tanks and I'm wondering what the United States is going to do in that regard when the American Abrams tanks are given to Ukraine?

I agree air superiority or even supremacy is key. I think over the aforementioned air space the use of AAA, SAMs, and MANPADs is a form of area denial and a sort of limited air superiority. And drones have turned the air war on its head with almost a throw back to the observation balloon of previous war but vastly more effective...

I think the Allies (or Axis/Soviets, etc.) destroying tanks from the air was extremely difficult with unguided munitions like rockets. There was a battle in Normandy (forget the name) where US forward air and artillery spotters were corned on a strategic hill and the Germans went all out to get them. Massive air strikes were called and the best ground attack aircraft in the West, a squadron of RAF Tempests, went in and wrought havoc on the German advance claiming 36 panzers. Later studies by the US Army and RAF showed that only six panzers were probable from the air and the rest were from direct and indirect and artillery/AT fire. The real destruction by Allied air power was the destruction of German logistics and the destruction of truck columns and trains, and the fact that their threat slowed down panzer movement a lot. But the use of napalm later on could devastate panzers clustered together in wood lines hiding from "jabos"...

 

[Jetronic]

Let's just hope it ends as deaths on both sides are many and nothing is worse than a war.

I don't see this ending, just pausing and flaring up later.