Worm gear skil Saw oil

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DrDusty86

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My dad has a worm gear drive Skil saw that has seen some heavy use and I talked him into changing the oil. Synthetic is perferred. The Skill # 80111 for the oil. What type of oil is that? I have some air compressor oil Recip 100 RP, if that's the type of oil.
Thanks,
Dusty
 
Bosch/Skill oil 80111 is available and IMHO what you should use. I see it is less than $5 on Amazon and comes up on the Home Depot website (may or may not be in stores).
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Bosch/Skill oil 80111 is available and IMHO what you should use. I see it is less than $5 on Amazon and comes up on the Home Depot website (may or may not be in stores).


+1

You'll probably spend more than $5 worth of time and effort trying to find a different lube that will work. I would just buy the correct stuff since it's so cheap.


http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-80111-Worm-D...s=Skil+8011+oil
 
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I have to wonder if it is more or less identical to some variant of a GL-4 or GL-5 gear oil. Which and what type I have no idea and agree it is best to just use the recommended stuff.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I have to wonder if it is more or less identical to some variant of a GL-4 or GL-5 gear oil. Which and what type I have no idea and agree it is best to just use the recommended stuff.


This. Worm gear oil is almost certainly NOT going to be anything like air compressor oil. Worm gears need hypoid type anti-scuff/EP additives more than... well, more than hypoid gears do!
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I have to wonder if it is more or less identical to some variant of a GL-4 or GL-5 gear oil.


I have a tube of it and it's definitely not petroleum based. It's some kind of animal fat based lubricant judging by the smell of it which is reminiscent of mink oil. I have some Sioux air tool oil which smells the same exact way but the worm drive lube is very thick like assembly lube and has a dark brown color. Just to be sure, I tried cutting it with Gasoline and it has no effect on it whatsoever. I don't know why Skil chose animal fat as a lubricant, but I assume they had a good reason.
 
Back in the day the only lubricant that could handle worm drive diffs was caster oil - R30. Probably why they chose goose grease for the Skil saw.
 
I believe that Skil says that a quality 90W gear oil can be used as a substitute but the proper lube should be used when available.

I also believe that these worm drives use brass or bronze worms so the EP adds found in most gear oils are probably not ideal. They probably use fats or other nonreactive additives to provide protection.
 
I am not sure why you would consider not getting the proper stuff. Amazon or a dealer. What are we talking about a few ounces, maybe $5.00.

No one here has any experience testing various lubes in a worm drive saw (I assume) nor have they done a UOA. Most people just buy the right stuff. And most probably don't have a worm drive saw, but I assume there are some.
 
I'm looking for a better oil than the Skil 80111 Heavy-Duty Worm Drive Saw Lubricant that is mentioned above. I've changed this fluid in the Ridgid R3210 worm-drive saw several times and each time there seems to be significant particles in the fluid. This oil has a much lower VI rating than what I would normally use.


This is what I've found out so far:

The owners manual states, "It is recommended that the gears be lubricated only with Mobil SHC 636 Oil."

The Mobil SHC 636 is an ISO 680 with a VI of 163 and appears to be a sythetic-blend. This appears to be a good fluid to use but I could not find it in an affordable quantity.

The Skill 80111 appears to be 'Shell Valvata J' which is available in ISO 460/680 with a VI of 99/83. This is definitely not a synthetic and will cause extra drag & heating.

The MSDS for Skil 80111 lists the product as:
- Material: Valvata J Oil
- Product: 63053
- Company: Equilon Enterprises, Houston, TX.

64742-57-0 (70-85%) Gear Oil
9003-29-6 (10-20%) Isobutylene/Butene Copolymer
61789-97-7 (3-9%) Tallow Oil


The high-performance synthetic worm-gear oils that I found ( polyglycol fluids from Mobil, Shell, Catrol, Fuchs, etc) were not available in quantities less than 55gal or 20L. So, the search continues.
 
Good luck trying get an ISO 680. Very unusual. An ISO 480 is about and SAE 250 grade.

I don't see why a high quality syn oil wouldn't work. Amsoil makes a SAE 250 grade. The sulfur package wouldn't be the best but I can't imagine that the worm drive would get all that hot.

It does have a bronze worm, correct?
 
I'd be happy with an ISO 460 (SAE 140) or lighter if it can provide enough protection. With higher VI and better friction modifiers it should be OK to drop a grade.

Yes it does have a bronze worm just like the other saws.

I've thought of using Amsoil SVO but I think there might be special FMs required for worm-gear.

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/svo.aspx
 
I too would go with the right stuff...

I have one of these saws, but have never changed it out.

I wonder if a 00 grease would work...
 
After digging over the MSDS on the Skil Worm Drive Lube (80111) and the PDS for Shell Valvata J it looks like the Skil lube is closer to the ISO 460 grade even though the MSDS lists a 650-680 viscosity at 40C.

Here's the info from the Skil MSDS vs 460 / 680 PDS
-4 / -6 / -9 (Pour Point in C)
266 / 270 / 332 (Flash Point in C)
??? / 31.5 / 35.3 (100C Viscosity)

Either way, the 100C viscosity for the 460/680 are pretty close and the gearbox gets way hotter than 40C.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2

I wonder if a 00 grease would work...


I thought about that too, but he's in Canada so cold weather is a factor. An ISO 680 out of the box before use might very well be close to a grease if cold enough outside.

You might want to look into the Chevron ESI gear lubes. They make a 85W140 and does not use sulfur in the formulation.
 
For those who are interested, here's some info on about worm-gear lubrication. The main points are:

- viscosity vs speed & temperature
- PAO vs PAG
- Corrosion of copper alloys


Lubrication of Worm Gears
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Articles/Print/169

The Effects of EP Additives on Gearboxes
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Articles/Print/28958

Which Synthetic Lubricant is Superior?
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Articles/Print/28837

Lubrication Selection for Enclosed Gear Drives
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Articles/Print/707
 
I've received a response from Amsoil and they're going to get back to me with a recommendation if they have one.

Just to sum up, the mineral-oil based lubes have a VI under 100, PAO is around 140-160 and PAG are all well over 200. The Skil/Shell oil is an ISO 680 with a 100C of around 32. An equivalent PAO would be an ISO 320/460, and the PAG would be an ISO 220.

Also, going to a higher VI and dropping an ISO grade will reduce temperatures which also help to reduce the viscosity requirements and increase efficiency so it's Win-Win.
 
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