Financial interests of louder voices seems to muffle our own.
Workers at the CA Tesla plant consider unionizing
- Thread starter Marcozi
- Start date
They tried to unionized our college teaching assistants once. Those are grad students doing that as part of their masters and PhDs. Most didn't bother with it but we got a lot of out of town autoworkers picketing in a college, and to be honest kind of odd seeing them among the grad students who didn't even bother to strike.
Had a group of 20 or so unionize in a mainly non-union part of the workforce for a major CPG company. That group started at zero and everything was negotiated. They ended up with a worse deal than before. Too easy to make that small group an example to anyone else trying to unionize. Union was gone after 2 years.
Local management was entirely to blame for the union starting up in this case.
Local management was entirely to blame for the union starting up in this case.
The reason for the moment being the VC industry is in Palo Alto and it is easier for them to fund tech startup in the Bay Area. Once they are big they tend to stay in the area and branch out to other places. So far the only companies I have seen completely leaving the area to be either mature / obsoleted industry with little room to grow, or dying companies no longer can afford the cost of living here.
Tesla would likely gradually reduce production here and make the Fremont site an R&D / pilot plant, instead of completely shutting down and move away. If they unionize this plant then the engineer / technicians might just do the job instead. In this case Tesla can easily afford to pay more for fewer workers and let them decide if it is worth unionizing. Most older tech companies here hire a lot of technicians who aren't unionized but are paid way more after stocks and bonus are included. You don't get stocks, ESPP, RSU, etc with union contracts, it might not be the best deal.
$35 an hour in today’s world of manufacturing is reasonable to assemble vehicles.
That’s what’s needed to support a family in 2023.
I‘m not surprised Toyota immediately increased their pay after UAW and Big 3 came to an agreement.
I’ve never been a union member but Im glad to see Big 3 will pay better wages and benefits.
That’s what’s needed to support a family in 2023.
I‘m not surprised Toyota immediately increased their pay after UAW and Big 3 came to an agreement.
I’ve never been a union member but Im glad to see Big 3 will pay better wages and benefits.
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I’m going to predict a close union vote at Tesla unless Tesla jumps in with a big pay raise like Toyota did.
UAW top pay is now over $40 an hour
The UAW did a huge favor for all automotive production workers. After this big win the non union workers will want the same.
I don’t think that the stock options Tesla offers will carry as much weight anymore as its stock price has been in the toilet since last union vote.
In addition the terms of this new UAW contract is insanely good for the workers. Non union workers are going to want more. I suspect they will get it but will it be enough to keep the union out? Maybe
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The reason that union membership is at an all time low is simply because they are unnecessary. People for the most part are satisfied with their wages and benefits and aren't working 16 hours per day in coal mines or steel mills for slave wages. If the UAW succeed in string arming other automakers into meeting their demands, the net result will be that a few thousand people will benefit and prices of vehicles will go up meaning the rest of the nation will be subsidizing people. Just what the country needs right now. More people (figuratively) on the public dole.
The reason why UAW membership is at an all time low is the non union auto industry aligns the pay and benefits close to UAW contracts so they dont end up unionized.
Unions in this case are very important for all workers in the auto industry, it brings up their standard of living to what it should be. You keep ignoring the facts with your posts. You need to acknowledge non union auto plants pay well because of the constant threat of their workers voting for a union. It's clear as day. (I think you or Jeff are Elon Musk in disguise with your posts
)Its fact, clear and simple what I posted and here it the latest in your face proof. UAW will be gunning for Tesla and Toyota.
Why did the Toyota workers in the USA get an INSTANT over 9% pay increase the day after GM settled with the UAW? Simple stuff.
Toyota also slashed the time for top pay for its workers from 8 years to 4 years, they also threw in other stuff with more PTO etc. You cant deny this stuff but for some reason you do. This would not happen if there was no pay packages to mirror from the UAW.
This is how companies keep the UAW at bay, they learned to mirror closely what a UAW worker makes so their employees dont bring in the UAW.
I have to disagree with this comment; workers always want more money and benefits. And a lot of people work tons of OT to try and keep up.
Management will always push for more labor at lower cost.
What is the proper balance? That's tough to define; depends on which side of the deal you are on. But it will always be managed by capitalism as it depends on the labor market for production.
@alarmguy - If I am Elon where the heck are my billions? Even just 1 of 'em? Kick down with the cash!
A gross oversimplification.
Bad management has been the downfall of many great companies. If the companies were that great, they would have no problem attracting and paying their workers.
But when they focus on ways to compensate their executives, while ignoring product development, and trying to squeeze costs from their employees, then those companies tend to fail.
Unions give labor a voice in how the company is run. The things, like the 40 hour week, days off, safe working conditions, benefits, that every worker today takes for granted had to be wrested from managements by the combined voice of labor.
Historically, the market wasn’t that free for labor, labor couldn’t just move to better options. So, unions developed. You take worker mobility for granted. But it wasn’t always that way. As labor has become more mobile, as information has become more available, labor, like capital, can go where it is better appreciated.
That is exactly why Toyota and others moved immediately to offer what UAW just won from the big three - they know that the information on wages and benefits is easy to compare, and that labor can leave for an opportunity where it is treated better.
So, unions have achieved their goal. They got better compensation for their constituents. Labor won this round. And no, they didn’t destroy the industry. They simply made things better for all the industry workers.
Sometimes, labor is unrealistic, but that’s a risk in any representative organization. If labor wrests too much from management, then that company is no longer competitive, and it can fail, but that is the fault of management as well, they failed to negotiate successfully. Perhaps they were too focused on their bonuses. Perhaps, like many management and C-suite teams, they were short timers anyway, just looking to pack their parachute before they left.
From what I've seen California is seeing a negative growth -4.5-5.0% per year.London Has Been Named The Tech Capital Of The World.
London Has Been Named The Tech Capital Of The World
London has been named the tech capital of the world by a new study, beating the likes of NYC and San Francisco.secretldn.com
People areleavingfleeing CA at an alarming rate and rightfully so. What it was and what it is are 2 different things. I remember well the days when MA was the tech capitol of the world long before silicon valley, RT 128 was all high tech with the highest paying jobs, not it is a ghost area.
If that happens, and I hope it does, that translates to a price increase on their cars, and/or a lower profit/car. The employees could win, although Elon might shift more production abroad.
Good to see over $40 an hour.
I‘ve been a blue collar worker most of my life and I’m in favor of the lower ‘worker ants’ getting what the deserve.
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I’m non union employee a get a nice pension with my 35 years of with company.
Company decided to give non union workers the same exact benefits as union (manufacturing side of company) just to avoid having to deal with another union.
That's the way to keep the union out. Unfortunate that it took some companies so long to figure that out. The company I work for will probably always be union. I can see the wedge between management and workforce and I don't like it. I saw it with previous companies I was in where I was in management and we had a union workforce. At a certain point once the union is in it is inevitable. I know I come off as pro union and I know my current situation wouldn't be what it is without the union, but at the same time it could have been avoided if the company hadn't taken advantage of the employees.
My feelings is the time is ripe in a world that everyone expects more:
It will be either a flop or national movement are my feelings.
UAW President;
"We aren't bashful or quiet about what our plans are: Our goal is to spend the next few years organizing auto workers across this country," Fain said. "The Big Three aren't the only auto companies making record profits. Auto workers at Toyota, Honda, Volkswagen, Hyundai and Tesla, they deserve record contracts. too."
Very interesting read from the source, read the whole article. These perks might be hard for non union shops to ignore.
www.cnbc.com
It will be either a flop or national movement are my feelings.
UAW President;
"We aren't bashful or quiet about what our plans are: Our goal is to spend the next few years organizing auto workers across this country," Fain said. "The Big Three aren't the only auto companies making record profits. Auto workers at Toyota, Honda, Volkswagen, Hyundai and Tesla, they deserve record contracts. too."
Very interesting read from the source, read the whole article. These perks might be hard for non union shops to ignore.
GM is expected to invest $13 billion in U.S. facilities under new UAW deal
Details of the deal were released Saturday after local UAW-GM leaders approved the pact, which must still be ratified by the union's 46,000 members with the automaker.
www.cnbc.com
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The unions will never be satisfied. That's the problem. They will always think that they are some kind of protected, entitled group and due to their tactics developed over the last century will always try to bully employers into giving them higher wages and better benefits than people who do equal work while at the same time protecting them from termination for the kinds of things that wouldn't be tolerated in the public sector.
And yes, I am busted. I really am Elon Musk and thought I should troll people here rather than on X.
And yes, I am busted. I really am Elon Musk and thought I should troll people here rather than on X.
I know you are! I also know you troll people other than "X"
Its ok though. I only told people in BITOG.I dont disagree with your view that Unions are never satisfied. (that may surprise you)
We only disagree that without them corporations are a friendly group of CEOs and shareholders that want to share all their good fortune with their employees.
If this UAW thing takes off nationally once again we will kill USA manufacturing. Oh well ... good luck to them all. Quality and low price win for me. Just like high pay wins for unions. Ill buy from any country.
The sad part is my income pays these UAW workers and future UAW workers in EV tax credits. My income also pays the shareholders of non UAW shops.
So if I buy overseas right now, I have to pay $7,500 penalty.
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That makes for an interesting take. Then again I work for an industry that has penalties for rules violations and the union is our representation to protect our job. Maybe other industries are like this too but I have worked for other railroads that aren't union and there's no recourse if they've made their decision. This arbitration process is basically a court case to assess blame and can end in penalties of being out of work for extended periods of time. I won't flat out defend unions. I've been in jobs where I didn't see how it helped that a place was unionized, but I would never for for a large railroad that wasn't. I'm sure there's examples of small railroads that are fine without it that have more of a personal level of contact with upper management. They also don't pay well either.
I also don't know what it's like to work in an auto manufacturing plant and I think any of us that haven't are armchair quarterbacking something we don't know. I think it's a bit presumptuous to assume we know what they should or should not be entitled to.