Workers at the CA Tesla plant consider unionizing

[alarmguy]

The math on this will be inescapable. Fast food, and Fancy Coffee, have a bit of price elasticity. They are not necessities.
.....
Artificially pushing wages above where the market will sustain them will accelerate those kind of productivity improvements and worker replacements.

I am in no way demeaning the role, or the work done by a barista, or a burger flipper, but adding too much to the price of those products will cause a fall in sales.

Who's artificially pushing wages up? The unions didn't, they're reacting to rising wages across the board because companies are paying more just to fill entry level jobs. That part was organic. As far as screen replacing people, that's probably not what's going on here. They raised pay because people weren't working there. I'm sure there are very few cases where people have been let go because screens were added. They can't seem to hire the people needed to do it without adding technology.

I think maybe your misunderstanding @Astro14 post. Maybe better said, this is the way I read his post.
(no politics) just factual data. The Federal Min Wage is $7.25 an hour.

It is individual state governments pushing the min wage into the $15 and $20 range. I take that as artificially.
They are not raising pay because people wont work there in most all cases. Granted with the cat out of the bag now and with state governments pushing the wages so high, even in state without sky high min wage it becomes a problem with closing the disparity.
Fast food workers in CA will be getting a min wage of $20 an hour in April. This puts pressure on other places across the board.

I personally know small business owners on the other coast in NYC it's KILLING small mom and pop businesses with a min wage of $15 an hour.

The screwy thing about all this is, it kills the small business and makes the mega corporations more powerful then ever. We already know there will be no more small business. So depending on the wording of Astro14 Im not sure and I do see your point too.
Without unions in the coming decade corporations would be controlling the entire labor market because crazy high laws raising the min wage will put all the small competition out of business. I do think, the more I type this, unions will play even a more important roll.
The more regulations their are, the more powerful large companies get because the small companies do not have the means to meet the new regulations.

 

[Torrid]

I think maybe your misunderstanding @Astro14 post. Maybe better said, this is the way I read his post.
(no politics) just factual data. The Federal Min Wage is $7.25 an hour.

It is is individual state governments pushing the min wage into the $15 and $20 range. I take that as artificially.
They are not raising pay because people wont work there in most all cases. Granted with the cat out of the bag now and with state governments pushing the wages so high, even in state without sky high min wage it becomes a problem with closing the disparity.
Fast food workers in CA will be getting a min wage of $20 an hour in April. This puts pressure on other places across the board.

I personally know small business owners on the other coast in NYC it's KILLING small mom and pop businesses with a min wage of $15 an hour.

The screwy thing about all this is, it kills the small business and makes the mega corporations more powerful then ever. We already know there will be no more small business. So depending on the working of Astro14 Im not sure and I do see your point too.
Without unions in the coming decade corporations would be controlling the entire labor market because crazy high laws raising the min wage will put all the small competition out of business. I do think, the more I type this, unions will play even a more important roll.

I don’t think anyone really would benefit from the raised minimum wage as you mention, but at least here I haven’t seen a now hiring sign on a major business of less than $15 an hour. Those places not heavily publicizing a big number are randomly closed for staffing issues. Sure raising the minimum wage could hurt small business and I’m not for that, but here with a limited market and higher pay the market itself is doing it already.

 

[alarmguy]

I don’t think anyone really would benefit from the raised minimum wage as you mention, but at least here I haven’t seen a now hiring sign on a major business of less than $15 an hour. Those places not heavily publicizing a big number are randomly closed for staffing issues. Sure raising the minimum wage could hurt small business and I’m not for that, but here with a limited market and higher pay the market itself is doing it already.

I dont disagree, Im mentioning the national effect of sky high entry, low skill wages being forced by the states (not yours) that raise the min wages to those levels. I think there is too much coverage that things are being a "me too" thing even in states without those high wages.
The bottom line, with a national push, only like you see, major companies will be able to compete and once they do "own the market" unions will be more needed than ever once again.

This labor shortage is not going to last forever. With everything in life the PENDULUM ALWAYS SWINGS. The change is already taking place inside every large store in the country. The next leg up will be with administrative jobs. AI will be taking those over too. Heck they are already starting the take over of the financial markets.

It's already started in my wife's company. Not taking over yet but as of this week she now has AI assistance. She will retire before her job which is quite important right at the present time will be taken over and the leftovers shifted to overseas centers, of which the company has recently set up handling less important tasks.

High labor costs make these innovations happen faster. Flat panels to order your lunch and dinners instead of people, ring up your own groceries etc. Coming fast is high end jobs will be smoke.

Ps, enjoying the conversation.

 

[fantastic]

The owner could afford to share some wealth back to the hard working men & women of this work force so I think this is a good thing.

 

[chris719]

I think maybe your misunderstanding @Astro14 post. Maybe better said, this is the way I read his post.
(no politics) just factual data. The Federal Min Wage is $7.25 an hour.

It is individual state governments pushing the min wage into the $15 and $20 range. I take that as artificially.
They are not raising pay because people wont work there in most all cases. Granted with the cat out of the bag now and with state governments pushing the wages so high, even in state without sky high min wage it becomes a problem with closing the disparity.
Fast food workers in CA will be getting a min wage of $20 an hour in April. This puts pressure on other places across the board.

I personally know small business owners on the other coast in NYC it's KILLING small mom and pop businesses with a min wage of $15 an hour.

The screwy thing about all this is, it kills the small business and makes the mega corporations more powerful then ever. We already know there will be no more small business. So depending on the wording of Astro14 Im not sure and I do see your point too.
Without unions in the coming decade corporations would be controlling the entire labor market because crazy high laws raising the min wage will put all the small competition out of business. I do think, the more I type this, unions will play even a more important roll.
The more regulations their are, the more powerful large companies get because the small companies do not have the means to meet the new regulations.

No one wants to work in NYC proper for $15 an hour because it's not possible to even exist on that there. The minimum wage is not the issue with very HCOL areas. You could double that minimum wage and it's still not enough.

The problem with small businesses being unable to compete with large corporations is a problem, but it has to be addressed in different ways I think.

 

[alarmguy]

No one wants to work in NYC proper for $15 an hour because it's not possible to even exist on that there. The minimum wage is not the issue with very HCOL areas. You could double that minimum wage and it's still not enough.

The problem with small businesses being unable to compete with large corporations is a problem, but it has to be addressed in different ways I think.

It’s not possible for a high school student who lives at home to exist?
Whoever said, making sandwiches or cooking hamburgers, or ringing up sales at a cashier is supposed to provide an income that you can exist on?
These are secondary jobs and jobs for high school and college students.

I don’t get your thinking, and this is the problem. There will be no jobs for the youth in the future because of thinking that out of the blue, no matter what task you provide and society you’re entitled to a wage where you could buy a home or rent an expensive apartment and raise a family.
One must understand supply and demand in a free country

 

[JeffKeryk]

It’s not possible for a high school student who lives at home to exist?
Whoever said, making sandwiches or cooking hamburgers, or ringing up sales at a cashier is supposed to provide an income that you can exist on?
These are secondary jobs and jobs for high school and college students.

I don’t get your thinking, and this is the problem. There will be no jobs for the youth in the future because of thinking that out of the blue, no matter what task you provide and society you’re entitled to a wage where you could buy a home or rent an expensive apartment and raise a family.
One must understand supply and demand in a free country

Respectfully AG, you are arguing both sides. 1st, you suggest labor should accept the wage and then the supply demand curve.
Well done, my man!

 

[alarmguy]

The owner could afford to share some wealth back to the hard working men & women of this work force so I think this is a good thing.

The shareholders are the owners. Tens of thousands of them. There is no owner.
Working men and women are not entitled to share in the profits of the company unless, of course, they invest in the stock.
They get paid to perform a task

 

[alarmguy]

Respectfully AG, you are arguing both sides. 1st, you suggest labor should accept the wage and then the supply demand curve.
Well done, my man!

You’re reading my post wrong. Labor does not have to accept any wage.
My response in that post was because he mentioned that no one can live on $15 an hour in New York City.
Well my answer is so what? Who said you’re supposed to?
You’re an individual in a free country, want to stay in free country? Then figure it out create your own company or skill level where you’re worth more to a company then minimum wage

 

[JeffKeryk]

You’re reading my post wrong. Labor does not have to accept any wage.
My response in that post was because he mentioned that no one can live on $15 an hour in New York City.
Well my answer is so what? Who said you’re supposed to?

AG, I was referring to:
"It’s not possible for a high school student who lives at home to exist?
Whoever said, making sandwiches or cooking hamburgers, or ringing up sales at a cashier is supposed to provide an income that you can exist on?
These are secondary jobs and jobs for high school and college students."

Why is someone's age or living conditions a reason to suggest a wage?
I suggest that without those workers, the burger flippers would be making much more, according to the supply demand curve.

 

[fantastic]

The shareholders are the owners. Tens of thousands of them. There is no owner.
Working men and women are not entitled to share in the profits of the company unless, of course, they invest in the stock.
They get paid to perform a task

Good points. If the workers can't afford to keep up with inflation w/standard pay their receiving then I think a strike is in order for them to obtain leverage to get paid decent wages for the evolving times. Would they be talking about organizing if they are getting paid fairly? I don't know but generally unions have given power to the workers as a collective where they wouldn't otherwise have against large companies like Tesla for fair pay or be able to share in the profits by investing. I don't really know their set-up that well on the pay scale but I know CA is not a cheap place to live although I'd still like to visit their National parks one day.

 

[alarmguy]

@JeffKeryk
As strange as it seems, I think we agree
I don’t have the time today, but just read your post. I think there is a miscommunication.
Because we seem to be posting the same thing in different words.
It may help if you go back and read the person’s post that I was replying to.
Wish I had more time but I’m actually driving to the hospital right now for a Tri scan
of my lungs throat and aortic artery.

It’s just part of an annual physical because I used to smoke cigarettes. There is no indication that anything is wrong. This is preemptive in case there was a little thing wrong to catch it right away.
The most dumb ass thing anybody can do is smoke cigarettes however 40 years ago it was accepted.

Many people do not know these are mandatory things provided by health insurance, companies, and Medicare, if you were an ex smoker.
I think you know, I love technology and with this technology, something could be picked up right away, and almost 100% cure rate for lack of better words,

My primary Doctor Who is generally very conservative always talk to me to have these tests done. He used to tell me if I come to him with a cough and a mass shows up on the x-ray. It’s too late but with the scans they will pick up something at a very early stage.
So anyway, they are keeping an eye on some lesions to make sure they don’t morph into something different or something bigger. By the way, if anybody has the scans done, they will always find something to keep an eye on or to follow up on.

As unpleasant as the thought may be of finding something, I paid health insurance, my entire life and I want every single procedure that technology offers (within accepted)medical practices)to catch something early before it’s too late.

By the way, I’m parking my car and I see the electric vehicle charging station is out of order but since it doesn’t have the words Tesla all over it, we know it’s not that but there’s a white sheet of paper covering it

 

[JeffKeryk]

@alarmguy I wish you only the best. Your wise words regarding cigarette smoking just might save someone's life, not to mention a huge cost to society.
I never picked up the habit because smoking and drinking made me puke. And alcohol was my jones. 37 years sober this month. And 37 years since I've been in the pokey. Go figure.

Now I get to hang out with good people like you; all I did was give up a lousy can of Budweiser. Pretty fair shake, if you ask me.