Bingo!
Wix re efficiency increasing with use
- Thread starter mojoe
- Start date
I'd say not. He's changed his claim from "cake theory" to "particle attraction forces inside the filter" to the reason oil filters get more efficient with use.
In order for him to prove oil filters get more efficient with use he would have to load it up enough to see it, which would mean running an engine on the dyno to simulate a real world use scenario while adding contamination at a very slow rate so it doesn't take 10K+ miles to load it up - but load it much slower than the ISO test does, and use the official ISO test dust added to the oil in a controlled manner. He would have to load the filter's holding capacity around 1/3-1/2 way during his test so it could be ISO tested after his experiment to compare the new efficiency vs loaded efficiency. The filter he installed would have to be ISO tested when new for a very short time to obtain a near new efficiency baseline.
I posted in another thread a test procedure he could use on the road (or an engine on a dyno that he doesn't care about), but he would have to get the filter ISO tested before and after field use at the same ISO lab (since there's no way he's going to have particle counters on the test engine) and add contamination (ISO test dust) to the oil along the way to load it up. Loading a filter slower isn't going to change the level of loading which determines how much a filter loses efficiency from loading. And he would have to use a relatively inefficient oil filter since high efficiency filters barely lose any efficiency as they load up as seen in the ISO efficiency tests, whereas low efficiency oil filters lose a lot of efficiency as they load up.
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Now Pablo, show your work please....no prizes without a validated BINGO card. And don't forget, all parting contestants receivvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
1 qt of Liquimoly Molygen and a AliExpress UV light!
I'm just waiting for his next video so I can learn some more about how oil filters work from a real expert.
Doubt he will make one because when he goes to Donaldson they will tell him that oil filters don't work like air filters, and lose efficiency from loading. He changes his claims on why he thinks oil filters increase efficiency with use. All the testing data that has been posted clearly shows that they lose efficiency with loading, and just because an oil filter would be loaded to the same level but slower in real use isn't going to change the way the media behaves with loading, oil flow velocity and dP and the resulting efficiency change with use. He rarely talks about oil filters in any actual technical way with data to back up the info (I watch most of his videos), so I'd say he's not really an oil filter expert. And if he claims oil filters work totally opposite in real use, then he better have some rock solid proof on more than just one oil filter. I'm waiting too.
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You could be right.
I just want him to dig into it with some real oil filter engineers and oil filer efficiency test labs, and be honest of what he finds. If he thinks oil filters behave totally opposite in real use verses how they act in the ISO efficiency test, then he's going to have to solidly prove it. He's the one that always says: "If you're gonna make a claim, you better have the evidence." - LIKE THIS. 
I think that's what we'd all like to see. In the mean time, I won't be testing the idea on my cars; I plan to put a new filter on at reasonable OCIs.I just want him to dig into it with some real oil filter engineers and test labs, and be honest of what he finds. If he thinks oil filters behave totally opposite in real use verses how they act in the ISO efficiency test, then he's going to have to solidly prove it. He's the one that always says: "If you're gonna make a claim, you better have the evidence." - LIKE THIS.
If the wind blows leaves into a chain link fence they will start sticking until the holes are covered and only air can pass through some places
Yeah, me too. I'd do the in field test if BITOG bought me a beater car, enough gas to drive it 5K miles, some ISO test dust and pay for two ISO efficiency tests ... I'll buy the filter, lol.
A leaf catcher air filter working on cake theory, that will eventually clog like air filters do in real use. Still not working like an oil filter.
Here's a Machinery Lubrication article about oil filters. Note the part where they talk about "channeling" (shown below), which is basically what happens when the filter gets a surge of flow and the resulting rise in dP across the media, like if you were driving down the road cruising at 1800 RPM, then suddenly floored it and went up to redline. The media design will determine how much debris is released as flow and dP increases - and also determines how much an oil filter will shed as it loads up as seen in the ISO efficiency test data. This shedding due to flow and dP increases described below is on top of the filter decreasing in efficiency as it loads up.
https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/29396/oil-filter-anatomy
View attachment 319959
Here's a video (first video in the post link below) that shows this phenomena. They also mention efficiency decrease over time (ie with loading), which is seen in the ISO 4548-12 test data.
View attachment 319960
I can see that on a race engine that barely makes any oil pressure at idle. Most of our vehicles are at pump relief pressure by 1,500rpm. As the engine runs faster more oil goes through the oil pump pressure relief. The engine could have the same oil pressure from 1,000rpm to 6,000rpm.
What part of the engine uses more oil as the engine runs faster? Assuming the engine isn't a Ford 7.3 or 6.0 diesel.
Only thing I can think of is hydraulic lifters maybe.
I'll be sure not to use fiberglass hydraulic filters any more. Sold, case closed.
Air filters do it too. The air filter test is ran at fixed speed. Even project farm tests show a surge of dirt when the flow is increased. That's why I shop vac off my air filter front and back every oci.
My dodge Dakota beater uses around 70 to 100cfm choohing down the highway at 65mph. I go to pass a tractor trailer and floor it then it's using somewhere around 400cfm while constantly vibrating from the engine and going over bumps and washboarded road surfaces.
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My kid got a little optical and digital microscope for Christmas maybe I can use it to count particles.
What about fuel filters? Do these follow the cake theory like air filters? Or do they act like an oil filter (without any bypass).
They appear to act like an oil filter with no by pass. But for a diesel for example there's usually 2 filters. One is usually at least as good as most oil filters and the second is far more efficient than an oil filter. That second filter being anywhere from 98% to 99.8% efficient on 4 to 10 microns, just depends on the application.
The most efficient fuel filters I've found are as follows:
One is rated for stopping 99.8% of 5 micron particles.
And a wix nano particle one that doesn't have a rating because there's no industry standard test to rate it. It appears to stop 98.5% of particles 2 microns and smaller.
That's pretty good. So what if it gets dirty and the efficiency drops to say 99%of 5 micron particles or just 98% of 2 micron particles?
You've gone from running a premium after market filter to probably still better than the oem recommended filter when it's clean.
Liquid under pressure behaves differently than air.
Then why do I always see a dirty intake behind hind a heavily loaded air filter that should have been changed a long time ago?
My Truck has 2 fuel filters but I think they are the same efficiency as there are no identifying marks on the filters like primary or secondary.
The filters are monitored and the DIC has a countdown. When they get replaced the % drops quickly and then slows down considerably as time progresses. Not sure if they are getting more or less efficient during the last 20% of their life but I change them when they drop to less than 10%.
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