wix 51515 vs 51085

[dnewton3]

I've got the VQ30 in my wife's Villager. Great little engine. Makes noise at start up, too. I never worry about it. Just turned 200k miles and still runs strong and clean.

Assuming the ADBV is doing it's job, then you should have nearly immediate pressure and flow upon start. Flowing more oil at the filter isn't going to help. In fact, like I stated, the filter will flow far more than the engine requires.

Depending upon year of your engine, some of those VQ engines (like mine) don't even use a bypass valve in the filter; they are in the block.

There's nothing wrong with some little experimentation, as long as you don't venture too far off the reservation and end up with a filter that risks some parameter being grossly out of spec for your application.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3

Generally, filters recommended for specific applications are flow rated WELL above the equipment required rate. If you see an oil filter rated at "7-9 gpm", then the engine is typically only running about 50-60% of that. Oil filters represent a very small fraction of the total flow resistance; the bulk of the pressure restriction comes from the internal engine clearances, etc. Under normal conditions the filter is not the obstruction people think it to be. The filter will pass and flow way more than the engine requires.


Yep, this has been discussed in the past. The engine's oiling circuit is typically about 15 times more restrictive to flow than the oil filter.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3

Assuming the ADBV is doing it's job, then you should have nearly immediate pressure and flow upon start. Flowing more oil at the filter isn't going to help. In fact, like I stated, the filter will flow far more than the engine requires.


+1 ... Most of the time, start-up noise issues are indeed due to a less than perfect ADBV.

 

[dnewton3]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: dnewton3

Assuming the ADBV is doing it's job, then you should have nearly immediate pressure and flow upon start. Flowing more oil at the filter isn't going to help. In fact, like I stated, the filter will flow far more than the engine requires.


+1 ... Most of the time, start-up noise issues are indeed due to a less than perfect ADBV.


I agree, and I've had some intersting experiences here.

Typically, most of us would agree that a silicon ADBV would surpass a nitrile ADBV. The silicon ADBV certainly stays more pliable in colder temps, and presumably is able to seal "better". But at times, I swear I get less drain back DURING SUMMER using nitrile. I think the silicon may be almost too soft or something. That's not any kind of "scientific" statement, but simply an "open hood with perplexed grunt" observation. It doesn't make sense, though. In theory, the ADBV should seal better with the more pliable material.

As ZeeOSix stated, the noise at startup is typically from an ADBV that is not sealing correctly (regardless of material composition).

My wife's van (the VQ30) will always make noise at start up. Sometimes it's very faint, other times it's predominant. I've used many brands and types of filters (all spec'd for that application) and it really just seems to be arbitrary. But, as I said, the engine itself runs great after 200k miles, and the used oil analysis (done occasionally) show no adverse effects. Rust is going to kill that vehicle before the engine ever considers quiting.

 

[atc250r]

So to revive an old thread, which filter mentioned by the OP would be best? Assuming all versions are available in XP.

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

I though these post over 6 months old were supposed to be gone?

 

[Job]

Still waiting for an explanation on how the scanner tells a 13 from a 15 micron particle. Number 13 is different from 15 written on paper, that's clear so far.
One micron is about 2 wavelengths of green visible light, or 10000 angstroms or 1000 nanometers.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
I though these post over 6 months old were supposed to be gone?

... threads that are 6+ years old get revived now and then.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Still waiting for an explanation on how the scanner tells a 13 from a 15 micron particle. Number 13 is different from 15 written on paper, that's clear so far.


Google is your friend.

 

[Job]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Still waiting for an explanation on how the scanner tells a 13 from a 15 micron particle. Number 13 is different from 15 written on paper, that's clear so far.


Google is your friend.


In other words you don't know. If I could find it I wouldn't ask. The question was clear, and you have no answer. But 13 and 15 on paper are supposed to be something important. If the scanner is reading +/- 5 microns, 13 and 15 can be the the same "particle." My questions are meant for learning not personal one upmanship.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Still waiting for an explanation on how the scanner tells a 13 from a 15 micron particle. Number 13 is different from 15 written on paper, that's clear so far.


Google is your friend.

In other words you don't know. If I could find it I wouldn't ask. The question was clear, and you have no answer. But 13 and 15 on paper are supposed to be something important. If the scanner is reading +/- 5 microns, 13 and 15 can be the the same "particle." My questions are meant for learning not personal one upmanship.

This literally took me 5 seconds on a Google search to find.

https://www.spectrosci.com/resource...le-counting-techniques-for-oil-analysis/

And here's dozens of more links to look at.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=how+do+oil+particle+counters+work

 

[Sayjac]

Quote
I though these post over 6 months old were supposed to be gone?...
I hope not. Lots of excellent reference information in threads older than 6 months. Deleting them would be foolish and detriment to bitog as a resource. I think the decision was promo board threads older than 6 months deleted. While I used to look back for older sales as reference, certainly not the same as other sub forum information.

Now, reviving/resurrecting older threads as standard practice, that's another matter. My .02

Carry on.

 

[Job]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Still waiting for an explanation on how the scanner tells a 13 from a 15 micron particle. Number 13 is different from 15 written on paper, that's clear so far.


Google is your friend.

In other words you don't know. If I could find it I wouldn't ask. The question was clear, and you have no answer. But 13 and 15 on paper are supposed to be something important. If the scanner is reading +/- 5 microns, 13 and 15 can be the the same "particle." My questions are meant for learning not personal one upmanship.

This literally took me 5 seconds on a Google search to find.

https://www.spectrosci.com/resource...le-counting-techniques-for-oil-analysis/

And here's dozens of more links to look at.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=how+do+oil+particle+counters+work


That doesn't answer my question. All the scanners see is a profile of the side facing the scanner. They estimate roundness on the side they see by averaging or drawing a circle around it. (first article)
BTW there is another Ultra particle count to look at, search for it since you are good at searching when you want to. It's not so good. Have a good day.

 

[ZeeOSix]

So you've been waiting since 2011 to understand partical counters when you just joined BITOG in Dec 2018 ... OK.

That's how particle counters work, and are accurate enough to measure oil cleanliness for comparative purposes. Everyone in the industry uses them, and have been for decades. The ones today are surely better than ones designed 20+ years ago. I'm sure you believe the PC data when it's done on Frantz filter comaro, as you've posted many times over the last 8 years.

I've already plotted that Ultra PC, but you fail to realize there are many more that show very good PCs, better than anything else besides maybe the Microgreen in the 10μ and below range. You always latch on to the outliers.

 

[Job]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
So you've been waiting since 2011 to understand partical counters when you just joined BITOG in Dec 2018 ... OK.

That's how particle counters work, and are accurate enough to measure oil cleanliness for comparative purposes. Everyone in the industry uses them, and have been for decades. The ones today are surely better than ones designed 20+ years ago. I'm sure you believe the PC data when it's done on Frantz filter comaro, as you've posted many times over the last 8 years.

I've already plotted that Ultra PC, but you fail to realize there are many more that show very good PCs, better than anything else besides maybe the Microgreen in the 10μ and below range. You always latch on to the outliers.


Off topic issues? The 13 and 15 microns are from this thread on Wix, I said nothing about Frantz or anything else being exempt from what I said. You added that and more. You still can't quite understand what a micron is in reality, not on paper, and what it means to measure a particle 13 versus 15. To differentiate a 13 versus 15 particle, first the particle has to be spherical. They aren't. Fat chance any particle in an engine is a round ball precisely 13 or 15 microns. So I think it is pretty meaningless to start claiming the 13 and 15 are actually any different , off of paper, and one filter is better. If you have any real facts to present on topic I would like to hear them otherwise not.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
So you've been waiting since 2011 to understand partical counters when you just joined BITOG in Dec 2018 ... OK.

That's how particle counters work, and are accurate enough to measure oil cleanliness for comparative purposes. Everyone in the industry uses them, and have been for decades. The ones today are surely better than ones designed 20+ years ago. I'm sure you believe the PC data when it's done on Frantz filter comaro, as you've posted many times over the last 8 years.

I've already plotted that Ultra PC, but you fail to realize there are many more that show very good PCs, better than anything else besides maybe the Microgreen in the 10μ and below range. You always latch on to the outliers.


Off topic issues? The 13 and 15 microns are from this thread on Wix, I said nothing about Frantz or anything else being exempt from what I said. You added that and more. You still can't quite understand what a micron is in reality, not on paper, and what it means to measure a particle 13 versus 15. To differentiate a 13 versus 15 particle, first the particle has to be spherical. They aren't. Fat chance any particle in an engine is a round ball precisely 13 or 15 microns. So I think it is pretty meaningless to start claiming the 13 and 15 are actually any different , off of paper, and one filter is better. If you have any real facts to present on topic I would like to hear them otherwise not.


Not off topic, just a fact that you are trolling once again.

Why don't you call WIX and ask them how dare they publish their efficiency numbers on two different oil filters, one showing 13μ and one with 15μ. Let them know you're an expert on particle counters, but that you've really never studied them and have been trying to get info for 8+ years on the subject matter. Let us know what they say.

 

[M56959]

If a topic interests you, start a new one.

Dragging up a 8 year old topic does no one any good as replies show clearly.