Anyone?
Winter wash. Does it make sense?
- Thread starter yugrus
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Good points. Salt is a no win situation.
I always felt like it was good to wash it off for the sake of the finish coat of the paint. And in an ideal world there would never be any on the car for long, which is not going to happen.
Around here on a warm day the snow melts and you get quite a splatter all over the car - so you need to wash the car for appearance. Same when getting home after a highway trip.
I always felt like it was good to wash it off for the sake of the finish coat of the paint. And in an ideal world there would never be any on the car for long, which is not going to happen.
Around here on a warm day the snow melts and you get quite a splatter all over the car - so you need to wash the car for appearance. Same when getting home after a highway trip.
Patman
Staff member
I get my car washed at a detail shop every Saturday morning. They fully dry the car inside their shop (obviously) and they even use a leaf blower to get practically every last drop of water off the car. I can't imagine leaving my car dirty for the entire winter, that would definitely kill the paint.
I have a house for sale in Central Florida, that would solve your problem.
"I can't imagine leaving my car dirty for the entire winter, that would definitely kill the paint."
Patman, but you realize that the salt gets right back where it was on Monday morning, and settles nice and cozy all over the car on Monday night...
So you actually pay to feel good over the weekend.
Or, if Vette is not your daily driver, I can take that.
Patman, but you realize that the salt gets right back where it was on Monday morning, and settles nice and cozy all over the car on Monday night...
So you actually pay to feel good over the weekend.
Or, if Vette is not your daily driver, I can take that.
i put an extra coat or two of wax on prior to the snow flying.
i take my car to a touchless every week or spray it down myself. then it goes into the heated garage where i wipe it down with eagle one wax-as-u-dry and then maybe some detail spray. if you use microfiber towels you shouldn't have any marring.
my hood, quarter panel and door were recently repainted (deer, nice small 4 point) and i have no scratches or swirls with this method.
there is a product called quick and easy wash (qew) that you can use to wash your car in the garage as well. see www.autopia.org for more details (pun intended). i've never used qew, but it gets good reviews.
i don't think i'd use a real wax unless i'd given the car a good hand wash or wiped it down really well after a touchless.
waud keeps my wax up for quite a while. i will hand wax once during the season.
i take my car to a touchless every week or spray it down myself. then it goes into the heated garage where i wipe it down with eagle one wax-as-u-dry and then maybe some detail spray. if you use microfiber towels you shouldn't have any marring.
my hood, quarter panel and door were recently repainted (deer, nice small 4 point) and i have no scratches or swirls with this method.
there is a product called quick and easy wash (qew) that you can use to wash your car in the garage as well. see www.autopia.org for more details (pun intended). i've never used qew, but it gets good reviews.
i don't think i'd use a real wax unless i'd given the car a good hand wash or wiped it down really well after a touchless.
waud keeps my wax up for quite a while. i will hand wax once during the season.
Kestas
Staff member
Yugrus, you painted the picture of a no-win situation with regard to washing the car. We do it anyhow.
Your best bet is to keep up with the rustproofing. Putting a barrier between the metal and elements is the way to go. Wash it for appearances and to get the heavy salt off, especially if you won't be driving for a bit.
My winter car of 16 years is still in near-mint condition. The toughest areas I battle are the transition from underside to Class A (waxed) surfaces. I've started putting rustproofing on the edge of the visible surfaces. It doesn't look all that great, but at least the metal is healthy.
Your best bet is to keep up with the rustproofing. Putting a barrier between the metal and elements is the way to go. Wash it for appearances and to get the heavy salt off, especially if you won't be driving for a bit.
My winter car of 16 years is still in near-mint condition. The toughest areas I battle are the transition from underside to Class A (waxed) surfaces. I've started putting rustproofing on the edge of the visible surfaces. It doesn't look all that great, but at least the metal is healthy.
Kestas,
I find it remarkable that you can keep a car in that condition in lower Michigan. More than the the salt, the pot holes and deer collisions seem to take their toll on most cars before they reach 10 years old. Congratulations to you.
Yugrus, I live in lower Michigan and can relate to the near constant salt baths that our cars receive (everyone re-read his posts, please).
What you are suggesting is: maybe we are doing more damage to our cars by trying to over-maintain them in the winter.
I agree with your "common sense" thinking. A power wash drives salt solution into the tiniest nooks and crannies. Frequent waxing may produce more paint scratches if all the salt/sand is not removed. Why attempt a spotless car for only one day of satisfaction a week?
Besides the other suggestions above, I think it is important to touch up the paint chips at least once a year. I wash mine every 4 to 5 weeks if we get a break in the weather (a feel good thing)and try not to touch (abrade) the painted surfaces. Mine sits outside 24/7.
At least the cars of today are holding up much better regarding rust than they did 20 or so years ago.
Good luck. Don't agonize what you can't control!
I find it remarkable that you can keep a car in that condition in lower Michigan. More than the the salt, the pot holes and deer collisions seem to take their toll on most cars before they reach 10 years old. Congratulations to you.
Yugrus, I live in lower Michigan and can relate to the near constant salt baths that our cars receive (everyone re-read his posts, please).
What you are suggesting is: maybe we are doing more damage to our cars by trying to over-maintain them in the winter.
I agree with your "common sense" thinking. A power wash drives salt solution into the tiniest nooks and crannies. Frequent waxing may produce more paint scratches if all the salt/sand is not removed. Why attempt a spotless car for only one day of satisfaction a week?
Besides the other suggestions above, I think it is important to touch up the paint chips at least once a year. I wash mine every 4 to 5 weeks if we get a break in the weather (a feel good thing)and try not to touch (abrade) the painted surfaces. Mine sits outside 24/7.
At least the cars of today are holding up much better regarding rust than they did 20 or so years ago.
Good luck. Don't agonize what you can't control!
"I wash mine every 4 to 5 weeks if we get a break in the weather (a feel good thing)and try not to touch (abrade) the painted surfaces."
I guess that's what I'm going to adopt. And rust-proofing. Oh well.
I guess that's what I'm going to adopt. And rust-proofing. Oh well.
Wash once a week at the spray-it-yourself place.
Don't wash it if the temps are going to sink way low....at -30c the doors feel welded shut...lol.
Keep up on the rustproofing. I use "Rust Check" in all door seams, hood and trunk etc.and all inner panels.
Spray entire undercarriage as well. That stuff works wonders!
very important:
As soon as the weather starts staying above freezing in the Spring you must de-salt the car.
Fresh water hose inside all fenders, wheel wells, engine bay, trunk lid, door seams and entire underside.
This is very important the rusting chemical reaction is ten times faster when the weather is warm.
If you don't get that salt out then it chews helloutta the body all summer.
Don't wash it if the temps are going to sink way low....at -30c the doors feel welded shut...lol.
Keep up on the rustproofing. I use "Rust Check" in all door seams, hood and trunk etc.and all inner panels.
Spray entire undercarriage as well. That stuff works wonders!
very important:
As soon as the weather starts staying above freezing in the Spring you must de-salt the car.
Fresh water hose inside all fenders, wheel wells, engine bay, trunk lid, door seams and entire underside.
This is very important the rusting chemical reaction is ten times faster when the weather is warm.
If you don't get that salt out then it chews helloutta the body all summer.
Every time I wash the car in winter I also wash undercarriage, with pressure washer.
Now I wonder how good is that for underside rust protection? Do I not just wash it away?
Now I wonder how good is that for underside rust protection? Do I not just wash it away?
We recently celebrated the second anniversary of out car's ownership. I hope I take a good care of it, and we intent to keep the car for as long as possible.
I apply Krown rust proofing on annual basis.
I used to wash the underbody of the car with power washer. Sometimes (when it is cold) I power-wash the car with a soft power brush. I think it is quite safe for the finish because of the water/shampoo mixture that runs through it at a quite high rate.
During last two winters I washed the car every week, giving it the fresh wax job almost every time. My car has more cosmetics then my wife...
Anyway, this season I started to question my own practices and what seems to be the common sense for winter car care.
First, the car wash itself. Here in Southern Ontario the salt stays on the road from about mid- November till about April. It does not go away even when it is dry. The salt forms very fine dust that gets everywhere, and there's no way to avoid that.
What happens after a good car wash is that the wet surface happily absorbs all the dry salt it could get, voiding the benefits of the car wash. This is very true after any car wash (touchless, detail shop, whatever) that you have to drive elsewhere after.
Even if you wash the car in your driveway and put the car into (warmer) garage like I do, the salt gets to the underbody next morning, and in 10 minutes it is as covered as before the wash.
There's an interesting twist- when you wash the salty car when it is dry, for a brief period you introduce it to the nice brine, until it is washed away. So otherwise pretty neutral salt (given low air humidity) has a chance to get active, although briefly.
When it is wet outside, things are even nastier, there's no point in a car wash at all.
Second thing is going through touchless wash, return home and wax the car. I think it is the worst you can do. Besides all the "benefits" of the filtered brine soak, this type of wash does not do a good job of cleaning. Waxing the car after it means grinding its finish with the grime residue that is left after the touchless wash.
The third practice that I question is keeping brined car in attached garage. It almost never gets below freezing inside my garage, no matter how cold is the weather. The car has never slept outside.
I realize that the brine is active to about -30C, but its activity does depend on the temperature. It is obvious that the car would be way better off standing outside in the cold. It is unfortunate that I don't have the place to put some sort of shed. And to me the ability to drive right away without scraping ice from windows outweighs the drawbacks of intensified corrosion from keeping the car inside...
So, what do you guys think? Considering the roads to be covered with salt all winter, is it worth to wash at all? Why? Remember, the car gets covered with salt in no time…
I apply Krown rust proofing on annual basis.
I used to wash the underbody of the car with power washer. Sometimes (when it is cold) I power-wash the car with a soft power brush. I think it is quite safe for the finish because of the water/shampoo mixture that runs through it at a quite high rate.
During last two winters I washed the car every week, giving it the fresh wax job almost every time. My car has more cosmetics then my wife...
Anyway, this season I started to question my own practices and what seems to be the common sense for winter car care.
First, the car wash itself. Here in Southern Ontario the salt stays on the road from about mid- November till about April. It does not go away even when it is dry. The salt forms very fine dust that gets everywhere, and there's no way to avoid that.
What happens after a good car wash is that the wet surface happily absorbs all the dry salt it could get, voiding the benefits of the car wash. This is very true after any car wash (touchless, detail shop, whatever) that you have to drive elsewhere after.
Even if you wash the car in your driveway and put the car into (warmer) garage like I do, the salt gets to the underbody next morning, and in 10 minutes it is as covered as before the wash.
There's an interesting twist- when you wash the salty car when it is dry, for a brief period you introduce it to the nice brine, until it is washed away. So otherwise pretty neutral salt (given low air humidity) has a chance to get active, although briefly.
When it is wet outside, things are even nastier, there's no point in a car wash at all.
Second thing is going through touchless wash, return home and wax the car. I think it is the worst you can do. Besides all the "benefits" of the filtered brine soak, this type of wash does not do a good job of cleaning. Waxing the car after it means grinding its finish with the grime residue that is left after the touchless wash.
The third practice that I question is keeping brined car in attached garage. It almost never gets below freezing inside my garage, no matter how cold is the weather. The car has never slept outside.
I realize that the brine is active to about -30C, but its activity does depend on the temperature. It is obvious that the car would be way better off standing outside in the cold. It is unfortunate that I don't have the place to put some sort of shed. And to me the ability to drive right away without scraping ice from windows outweighs the drawbacks of intensified corrosion from keeping the car inside...
So, what do you guys think? Considering the roads to be covered with salt all winter, is it worth to wash at all? Why? Remember, the car gets covered with salt in no time…
Yugrus. We bought a new Pontiac Pursuit this
past spring and I also had it rust proofed with
Krown in April. I have not washed the car yet
since it's been so cold, but I don't keep the
car in my garage. Just keep doing what you have been and that car will last.
PS. Don't worry about washing out the Krown oil.
It won't happen. When I got the Pontiac and my
bimmer sprayed this spring, I didn't wash my
BMW for days because I wanted the oil to soak in.
When the time came to wash it, I had to rub really hard to remove the overspray on my paint.
No water spray gun would remove that oil.
past spring and I also had it rust proofed with
Krown in April. I have not washed the car yet
since it's been so cold, but I don't keep the
car in my garage. Just keep doing what you have been and that car will last.
PS. Don't worry about washing out the Krown oil.
It won't happen. When I got the Pontiac and my
bimmer sprayed this spring, I didn't wash my
BMW for days because I wanted the oil to soak in.
When the time came to wash it, I had to rub really hard to remove the overspray on my paint.
No water spray gun would remove that oil.
Thank you very much folks!
Kestas
Staff member
Let me warn everyone who thinks they are doing their car a favor by washing at the DIY spray wash. The wash water at these places is recycled. That means that the salt builds up in solution, and what you're really doing is forcing this brine in all the nooks and crannies that normally wouldn't see salt. The outside is nice and shiny, but this renders the car to rot from the inside-out.
I always keep a set of rubber gloves and the garden hose in the house. When the weather breaks and the water won't freeze on the car, I wash my car on the driveway. Not only do I save time and money, but I get a superior wash than using the brine at the car wash.
To keep the water from welding the doors shut I leave the doors ajar for at least 10 minutes to let the water drip off. Otherwise it wicks into the gaps at the seal and you'll never get back into the car next morning.
I also get funny looks from my neighbors who can't understand why I wash my cars in the winter cold. My answer to them is "You mean you don't???"
I always keep a set of rubber gloves and the garden hose in the house. When the weather breaks and the water won't freeze on the car, I wash my car on the driveway. Not only do I save time and money, but I get a superior wash than using the brine at the car wash.
To keep the water from welding the doors shut I leave the doors ajar for at least 10 minutes to let the water drip off. Otherwise it wicks into the gaps at the seal and you'll never get back into the car next morning.
I also get funny looks from my neighbors who can't understand why I wash my cars in the winter cold. My answer to them is "You mean you don't???"
You’re making a bit of a sweeping generalization…not all recycle the water.
It’s a good point you are making, and its not uncommon for the automated car washes to use recycled water.
The wash-it-yourself I visit is not only fresh water, its also entirely solar powered to keep the tree huggers happy.
IMO if you're Krowned, then it doesn't matter whether you wash it or not nor whether it's parked outside or in. The stuff will displace salt and water for a rough duration of 12 months and the metal will be rust free virtually forever.
That said, I like to get the salt off the body panels, paint, rubber moulding and even trim pieces as the Krown can't protect everything from the corrosive effects. Either self-washing at home or coin-op places have proven effective. I believe gas station car-washes are the one's that use recycled water.
Likewise, the Krown product creeps all year and although this is a good thing internally (seams and welds in the metal structure of the car), it become a bear to remove the longer it sits on the car. It basically turns into a black greasy mess. Regular removal is pertinent to having a car look presentable during the rest of the year. Ever see someones car that's Krowned but never washed? Yeah, there's no rust, but it looks like a rolling grease bin
As far as power spraying...I always do the fender wheels, but the underbody really doesn't need much. You don't see the transaxle, etc, and why remove the rustproofing product there anyway? Wait until spring to do those parts...and keep up the Krown annually!
That said, I like to get the salt off the body panels, paint, rubber moulding and even trim pieces as the Krown can't protect everything from the corrosive effects. Either self-washing at home or coin-op places have proven effective. I believe gas station car-washes are the one's that use recycled water.
Likewise, the Krown product creeps all year and although this is a good thing internally (seams and welds in the metal structure of the car), it become a bear to remove the longer it sits on the car. It basically turns into a black greasy mess. Regular removal is pertinent to having a car look presentable during the rest of the year. Ever see someones car that's Krowned but never washed? Yeah, there's no rust, but it looks like a rolling grease bin
As far as power spraying...I always do the fender wheels, but the underbody really doesn't need much. You don't see the transaxle, etc, and why remove the rustproofing product there anyway? Wait until spring to do those parts...and keep up the Krown annually!
"To keep the water from welding the doors shut I leave the doors ajar for at least 10 minutes to let the water drip off. Otherwise it wicks into the gaps at the seal and you'll never get back into the car next morning."
yes I have done this also, following summer/winter wash, every 2-4 washes (or when I remeember) but more importantly wintertime - I apply 303 to the gasketing to keep it supple. Had a maxda for over 10 yrs & rubber still baby soft when I sold it!
yes I have done this also, following summer/winter wash, every 2-4 washes (or when I remeember) but more importantly wintertime - I apply 303 to the gasketing to keep it supple. Had a maxda for over 10 yrs & rubber still baby soft when I sold it!
What's 303?
I have had good results with silicone spray used regularly.
nobadge...
sorry if I didn't list the full name it's "303 Areospace Protectant " - I know they carry it at Cdn Tire , use it on the vnyl parts (dash etc.) nice matte finish not greasy like the old armour all (silicone based).
btw, not an attack - wasn't silicon damaging (long term wise) to black gasket mat'l?? someone chime in....
sorry if I didn't list the full name it's "303 Areospace Protectant " - I know they carry it at Cdn Tire , use it on the vnyl parts (dash etc.) nice matte finish not greasy like the old armour all (silicone based).
btw, not an attack - wasn't silicon damaging (long term wise) to black gasket mat'l?? someone chime in....
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