Winter tires

Patman · Nov 26, 2003

I decided to order a set of winter tires for my wife's car now too. I ordered the Kumho KW17s for her.

I chose these ones since they look to be a good all around tire, something she could use after winter is over. I know that winter tires are softer compound, and will wear out fast, but she only drives about 8k per year, so if I get two years out of these tires I'll be pretty happy.

The way she drives, I feel much more comfortable knowing she has snow tires on there. She doesn't seem to slow down when roads are wet.

These were the tires I was originally going to get for my car (the Semperits were actually my second choice), but the local tire shop didn't carry them. I should've just ordered them online like I did with these ones, I would've saved myself $50 per tire on my car! I only paid $73 each (Canadian dollars) for the Kumhos for her car. For my car they would've been $133 each.

These tires should work very well in the summer in the rain for her too. They don't look like your typical snow tire so we can get away with running them all year round without looking like goofballs.

harper · Nov 27, 2003

I would not recommend winter tires whatsoever in the warm months. They use a softer compound as you know which also leads to poorer emergency handling and stopping power in the warm months. If you are interested in very good year round winter tires, try Nokian WR's (can be used in warm weather).

Patman · Nov 27, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by harper:
I would not recommend winter tires whatsoever in the warm months. They use a softer compound as you know which also leads to poorer emergency handling and stopping power in the warm months. If you are interested in very good year round winter tires, try Nokian WR's (can be used in warm weather).

If anything the softer compound will stop and handle better in the warm weather.

shortyb · Nov 27, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Patman:

quote:

Originally posted by harper:
I would not recommend winter tires whatsoever in the warm months. They use a softer compound as you know which also leads to poorer emergency handling and stopping power in the warm months. If you are interested in very good year round winter tires, try Nokian WR's (can be used in warm weather).

Click to expand...

If anything the softer compound will stop and handle better in the warm weather.

This would be true if the winter specific tires didn't have the squirmy treadblocks and mutitude of sipes necessary for cutting into snow and ice.

When pushed in dry, warm conditions, some of these tires can be downright scary. Kinda like riding on greased marbles. At least thats what it felt like when I got lazy and left my winters on all year

.

Go try and do some stopping distance comparisons or "emergency lane changes" between the winter tires and good all seasons when it gets warm (in a safe testing area) and I think you'll agree. Yeah, all seasons are definately a compromise, but they do what their name implies fairly well. If you want better, well you know the answer, get season specific tires. My $.02

Patman · Nov 27, 2003

The KW17s have a tread pattern that looks more like an all season tire though, that's why I chose them. They are more of a "handling" snow tire, so they don't have the big chunky tread blocks of a typical snow tire.

Take a look and you'll see what I mean:

http://www.tiretrends.com/Winter-Tires-Packages.php?tireID=399

That's why I like my Pirelli Winter 210s, they handle very well in the dry, it does not feel squirmy like a typical snow tire. This is what they look like, you'll see their tread isn't big and chunky either, it's geared more for handling:

http://www.tiretrends.com/Winter-Tires-Packages.php?tireID=344

[ November 28, 2003, 07:32 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]

harper · Nov 27, 2003

That's good hopefully the Kuhmo's will be okay on dry. I have had squirrly experiences with my Blizzack's on warm dry days (end of season but still snow occasiobally). Also my current Michelin Alpin XM+S's lose their grip in warm weather dry weather. I have heard the Pirelli's are great at handling too, not the best in snow but its all a compromise.

good luck

Patman · Nov 27, 2003

True, I can't imagine my Pirellis being as good in the deep snow as Blizzaks would be, but I wanted something that I knew for sure would handle good, but would at least be better than all season tires, which I know these will be for sure.

Toronto winters don't usually have a lot of deep snow, and with me driving mostly in rush hour traffic on the main highways, I will see mostly just slush. It has rained like crazy here lately and these Pirellis cut through deep water unbelievably well. And the cornering ability in the rain is simply awesome. These would be good tires for anyone living in Vancouver or Seattle!

shortyb · Nov 28, 2003

Both the Kuhmos and Pirellis appear to be heavily siped in the treadblocks themselves (looks like a loaf of sliced bread).

Tire manufacturers have learned a thing or 2 about making winter specific tires these days. Gone are the unforgiving tractor treads and the new kid on the block (no pun intended) are the siped threads. These "slices" spread apart and reveal many edges to bite into snow and ice. Also, they are putting in special compounds that get/remain soft in extremely cold temps. All of this makes for a great tire for snow and ice but does not make for a great handling tire in warm or dry conditions. Now if you took the siping out of those treadblocks and made them more solid, THEN you may have a decent warm weather handling tire. Its the diminished "solidness" of the siped blocks that gives the squirrely feeling I was talking about.

Without driving and comparing them, I would say by the looks that they lean more towards the stable end of the winter tire spectrum, especially in lower profiles that your car needs.

I am kinda curious though, that given the primary driving conditions you mention, why you just don't go with a high performance all-season. They would seem to suffice in most any condition you're likely to encounter and save the changeover hassle too IMHO. Another $.02

Patman · Nov 28, 2003

A high performance all season tire would work, and I have gone that route in the past (ran Dunlop SP Sport 5000s last winter) however I end up compromising in both seasons. An all out summer tire (like the Goodyear F1 GS D3 I ran this summer) will hook up so much better at the dragstrip. As well, these Pirelli snows do handle winter driving better than those Dunlop all seasons would.

I am not "into handling" in terms of being into autocross or road racing, so I don't push my car hard in corners like some people, but in the few warm days we've had since putting on these tires (some days close to 60) I did not notice a severe degradation in cornering ability. At higher speed corners I only need to slow down to a point about 5mph less than with my summers. In low speed corners, I can take them just as quick. In rain, man these Pirellis stick! We should be getting some light snow today, so I will finally see how they do there.

So I don't mind the changeover hassle in my own car, but I didn't want to do it for both cars (I already had no room to store my summer wheels so they are at my parents house and I didn't want to ask them to store 4 more) which is why I decided to try these Kumhos out on my wife's car for all year round. She accelerates hard, but doesn't corner fast (especially with our two year old son in the car) so she probably won't even notice any handling differences. It'll be an interesting experiment to say the least. One of the guys in my car club, who is heavily into suspension and tires (he spends a lot of time on the road courses) says I should be just fine with those Kumhos on her car in the summer, and figures my estimate of getting two full years of life from them is reasonable. I'll keep you guys posted!

shortyb · Nov 29, 2003

Reread the posts, didn't realize the Kuhmos were for the wife's car, my bad

.

Glad to hear you weren't keeping the snows on all year round with the Firebird, they would make great end table supports the first time you got into it hard

.

Your plan with the wife's car seems like a decent idea considering the mileage and driving habits. Definately keep us posted on how they do especially how they behave in warmer weather.

SL8Brick · Nov 29, 2003

Those Kumho KW17s look like a decent performance snow tire. The siping pattern kind of looks like Michelin's Alpin snows. Too bad the Tire Rack doesn't offer those here in the US

.
I just mounted a set of Kuhmo KW11s on our car. They're not exactly a "performance" snow tire, but they are very quiet on dry roads and seem to evacuate water pretty well too. I suppose the real test comes when the white stuff falls.

Patman · Nov 29, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by shortyb:

Glad to hear you weren't keeping the snows on all year round with the Firebird, they would make great end table supports the first time you got into it hard

.

I definitely wouldn't want to run them in the summer, I enjoy the awesome traction my Goodyear F1 GS D3 tires offer me at the dragstrip! At least now I'll get longer life out of those too.

Patman · Dec 2, 2003

OK, I finally got the chance to try out my snow tires on my Firebird in some light snow. This morning we got about an inch or two of snow.

These tires rock! My car can be driven normally even in the slippery stuff, and it can corner without sliding, you can brake without the ABS kicking in, and you can even accelerate at a normal pace without the traction control intervening.

Simply put, driving in light snow with these snow tires is like driving on dry roads! It is going to make my winter go by much quicker knowing I won't have trouble getting through the snow!

Bror Jace · Dec 3, 2003

Patman, I meant to answer your PM ... but I'll just say my piece here.

I'm glad the snow tires are working out for you ... but be careful anyway. I always push and test the grip as I drive in the snow. I just do it in spots where sliding a little here n' there won't be a big deal (deserted intersection, etc ...).

Oh, and driving "normally" (hard cornering, drag starts) will eat up these tires even faster ... especially on drive pavement. That's why I put my snows on late (going on Friday, I think) and take them off early (end of March, beginnning of April).

I'd hate to see that you have 15,000-20,000 on these tires and they be no better than all-seasons ("no-seasons") in the winter.

--- Bror Jace

Patman · Dec 3, 2003

Don't worry Bror, I won't push the limits with these tires too often. I'll probably only put maybe 6-7k per season on them, so even if they last me 2-3 years that's fine by me.

I'm really hoping to have my 97 Corvette by the end of 2006, so as long as these snows last until then I'll be ok. I will take them off the Firebird in the first or second week of April, so they won't see much driving on warm dry pavement.

My wife is getting her Kumhos installed tomorrow morning by the way.

jsharp · Dec 3, 2003

Even with all the work they have done to make all season tires better all around, I still like the idea of a dedicated set of winter tires. Not only does it allow you to run a tire that works better in the winter, it saves your expensive factory alloy wheels from the salt they use by the truckload.

I have a set of cheap steel wheels and Dunlop Dueler R/T's that I run on my 4Runner for winter and when I wheel it. It allows me to run a less agressive AT type tire in the summer.

Patman, why don't you get a set of slicks or something like BFG drag radials for your trips to the dragstrip. I'd think traction would always be at a premium in that car with street tires...

jsharp · Dec 3, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Patman:

quote:

Patman, why don't you get a set of slicks or something like BFG drag radials for your trips to the dragstrip. I'd think traction would always be at a premium in that car with street tires...

Click to expand...

I have gone that route in the past with other cars, but find the swapping out at the track a bit of a pain. With this car now, since it's basically stock with just a better exhaust, it really wouldn't benefit too much from drag radials. I'm already cutting as low as 1.94 60fts with my Goodyear GS D3s, so with drag radials I probably wouldn't beat that by too much. Most days at the track I can completely floor it off the line without any wheelspin.

I did run some Toyo RA-1s the previous year, which are very sticky like drag radials, and my 60fts weren't any better. So for close to stock, a very good regular radial is enough for me.

With my 98 Formula, I ran BFG drag radials for one season, but kept them on all the time. I only got 5000 miles out of them, but I really needed that extra stickiness, since that car was much quicker and also had a 6 speed with 4.10 gears.

Makes sense. I got sick of swapping my autocross tires at the meets too and just started driving the car there with them on. I have air tools at home and a lot nicer place to change them.

I'd think the Toyos would have worked pretty well.

Guess every car is different. On my stocker Mustang the a/x tires I have are better for drag racing than my street tires. More grip, and being shorter, a little more more gear which helps with my 3.08 rear...

Patman · Dec 4, 2003

The Toyos were very sticky, but with my car not having any mods on it at the time, even if I ran a pure slick I'm sure my car would not have run quicker times.

The one thing I didn't like about the RA-1s were that when they were cold they were very slippery. You needed to really heat them up to make them stick. But as an all around tire, they were great! Very good in the rain, very quiet, and a decent treadlife for a "race" tire (11k and I could've gone 2-3 more but winter was fast approaching)

Patman · Dec 4, 2003

quote:

Patman, why don't you get a set of slicks or something like BFG drag radials for your trips to the dragstrip. I'd think traction would always be at a premium in that car with street tires...

I have gone that route in the past with other cars, but find the swapping out at the track a bit of a pain. With this car now, since it's basically stock with just a better exhaust, it really wouldn't benefit too much from drag radials. I'm already cutting as low as 1.94 60fts with my Goodyear GS D3s, so with drag radials I probably wouldn't beat that by too much. Most days at the track I can completely floor it off the line without any wheelspin.

I did run some Toyo RA-1s the previous year, which are very sticky like drag radials, and my 60fts weren't any better. So for close to stock, a very good regular radial is enough for me.

With my 98 Formula, I ran BFG drag radials for one season, but kept them on all the time. I only got 5000 miles out of them, but I really needed that extra stickiness, since that car was much quicker and also had a 6 speed with 4.10 gears.

penzdude · Dec 8, 2003

kinda lucky here. my 92 ranger wears bf goodrich all-terrain ko's all year long. good ride. great winter traction. no need to worry about goingto a winter tire. must admit, would look really strange on a car though!!! lol penz

Winter tires

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