Winter tires

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Well, it was just a few hours before that big (18” deep) snow storm hit the Northeast that Bror finally put his snow tires on the '03 Sentra SE-R Spec-V.

He got 15” x 6” rims (with cheesy decorative covers) from the Tire Rack for $46ea + S&H and had them sitting around for a while before he bought the tires. Considering the experiences he’s had had with snow tires over a couple decades, some web research on possible sizes and an in-depth consultation with his tire dealer, the incomparable Crazee Larry, Bror came to the conclusion that he’d get 185/65R15 Hakkapelita2s … with stuudds ... for all 4 corners.
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Now, the stock tire size on his Sentra Spec-V is an almost ridiculous 215/45ZR17. So, Bror knew he was going to get a very different ride and cornering feel with the snows … nothing nearly as impressive as the factory tires and rims.

So, after having put a couple hundred miles on them, are they noisy?

Yep.

Does the car now corner like an ordinary econobox?

Yep.

Does the car ride nice and smooth?

Nope.

Does Bror regret getting such an aggressive winter set-up?

Not on your effin’ life!!
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Because the storm hit on a weekend, he was driving around Monday and Tuesday on dry pavement. He didn’t get a chance to test them thoroughly. However, his driveway and a couple parking lots had an inch of frozen snow and crust on them and a few brake and acceleration tests showed how awesome these things are going to be when the going gets tough. Using the old set-up, he got stuck at the end of his driveway in just 1/2" of freezing rain.
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So, a word of caution to all you people driving around in prissy poseur SUVs wearing pathetic “no-season” tires. Better get outta the way when you see Bror’s black, mean machine bearing down on you in the rear view mirror!!
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--- Bror Jace
 
Hehe, good story Bror. Liked the third party narration
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.

I too just put my snows on the 2WD Tacoma last week. We got 6", a mere dusting compared to you folks up in the Northeast.

Dunlop Graspic DS1s (all that would fit in the weird size I have) and they make an already noisy, fair handling truck even more so. And the 400lbs. of ballast in the back REALLY exaggerates "weight transfer" on those tall sidewalls too.

After cleaning the snow off of my cars, I went to the local high school parking lot for some...uh..."testing". First the Xterra with some ok all-seasons. Even in 4WD, spun like a ballerina on meth. Lots of fun but not very confidence inspiring. Especially since this is my wife's car and main transport for my 3YO son. Then I took the PU out there. Could hardly get it to spin at all. Very surprising stopping ability too. Needless to say, I have a set of Winter Duelers on order for the X. Dedicated snows are the way to go.

[ December 10, 2003, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: shortyb ]
 
“Hehe, good story Bror. Liked the third party narration.”

Obviously shortyb is not familiar with the thread which helped Bror pick out his new ride:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000272

3rd party narration is something Bror does for fun.
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Seriously, shortyb reminded Bror about something which was nagging at him from the back of his mind regarding vehicle weight and traveling through the snow.

Weight may make the best out of a vehicle with crappy, no-season tires because it helps force the tires deeper into the snow, hopefully finding traction on the harder surface below … but is adding weight (a traditional solution to hazardous winter travel) really a good idea overall? A heavier vehicle will have more momentum, making it harder to stop and steer. For safety, Bror would much rather be able to stop and steer rather than accelerate harder.
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Anyway, with proper tires, even light economy cars are pretty fabulous in the snow. Who needs extra weight? Certainly not Bror.
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Bogatyr just informed Bror that he is going with 30x9.5x15 BFG ATs as a winter set-up for his Xterror. His problem was finding something skinny enough to do a proper job. Too many sheeple love that wide-tired look, even if it is pretty stupid for an SUV traveling on every surface except sand and perhaps deep mud.
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Any other thoughts on weight out there?

--- Bror Jace
 
My Cherokee weighs about 3000 lbs. has stock size Michelin tires and I never have traction issues is rain or snow. I think heavier vehicles would have issues with stopping and changing directions.
 
The added weight theory you (is it Bror, or Bror??
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) mention for smaller "econo" cars is valid. A good portion of the weight bias is over the driven wheels (good for traction forward) but is better distributed (good for braking and turning) than my lightass PU.

Took it over to the Motor Carrier Saftey guys a couple of years ago, threw it on the scales, and figured the weight distribution to be about 73% front 27% rear. Good for braking and initial turn in but once in a turn, the lack of weight to keep the tires in contact and centrifugal force take over, making it very tail-happy (not the good kind either
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).

I've played with the total amount of weight and settled on about 400lbs for good all around traction (forward and lateral) in snow. Obviously when its dry, there is more traction. The tires stick better while the added weight just amplifies lateral roll on those tall, single ply sidewalls. Its a total pain to keep humping the sandbags in and out according to the weather so I just keep them in there. Even if they weren't in the back, the tires themselves would limit my driving to sub-Schumacher levels anyway.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Patman:
-- my stock tire size (245-50-16) and they won't look too skinny on the car either. Plus they'll fit nicely on the 16x8" 1997 Camaro Z28 rims I'm putting them on.
--


Can you explain how the formula works in figuring this out?
 
Hey, Patman... are you still happy with those pirellis? The Mustang is gonna need new winter shoes next year... The ones I am using are getting pretty worn and they are not as good as they used to be (Firestone Winterfire... now discontinued
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).
 
These Pirellis are definitely better than all seasons, and they've handled most conditions very well, but there have been a few occasions where I was slightly less impressed with them. I think under those rare times though, there was a layer of ice underneath the snow, and under those conditions I don't think anything would do well.

Ask me this same question again in about 48 hours, we're due to get about a foot of snow between now and Wednesday.
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