Windows Vista

Status
Not open for further replies.
One thing I know for sure-if you want security you can have it right now with Mac OS X and on a computer that can run a lot of software and hardware AND run Windows XP as well. It has been five years since Mac OS X came out and there are still no major security problems.

There are security issues involving Microsoft servers but Unix, Linux, BSD (especially OpenBSD) and Apple servers usually have far fewer problems.

One of the big reasons Microsoft software is targeted is just because Microsoft uses ActiveX. A lot of adware and spyware targets ActiveX.

Any operating system can be targeted by an expert. But Microsoft operating systems have proved easier to target then other systems.

An unprotected Windows XP computer can be targeted within minutes of being put on the internet. You MUST have security software such as an antivirus, firewall, and antispyware to operate such a system on the internet. In comparison there are still a lot of people using Macintosh computers who do not have their firewalls turned on and have no antivirus or antispyware software. This is proof that Macintosh computers have more natural security then a Windows computer.

It is false to say that some systems are not targeted just because those systems are a small part of the market. A weakness in any software or hardware WILL be exploited once discovered even if something is only a small part of the market. This has already been demonstrated. Even if it is true that something is secure just because it is a small part of the market you could use that operating system or software or whatever until it started to be targeted. Who knows, Microsoft may have the safest software in the world in five years. Or Windows Vista may be a total flop when it comes to security. We can't predict the future.

In addition Microsoft has been its own worse enemy in some ways by the heavyhanded way Microsoft has sometimes treated its customers. There are people who are eager to target Microsoft.

My personal guess is that Windows Vista will be more secure then Windows XP at least at first. But I think there will be more adware and software attacks on Windows Vista just because of the ActiveX if for no other reason. You want proof? Put Firefox and Thunderbird on your Windows XP computer. You can get (for free) software that will not permit scripts being run in Firefox. Guess what? Zero adware/spyware. Prove it to yourself.
 
quote:

It has been five years since Mac OS X came out and there are still no major security problems.

gee, I wonder why that is? do people steal Pintos?

the whole market segment thing is exacly why it is NOT targeted, M$ is used to run servers and for some odd reason highly recured networks where folks choose not to runa *ix variant.

why target a few people when you can target 98% of the people on the internet? why bother with 2% ?
 
quote:

Originally posted by Zee1:


the whole market segment thing is exacly why it is NOT targeted,


That's not the whole truth, that's about half of it. While it's obvious that a software hacker will target the most computers possible (as you noted), the other side of the reasoning is that it's hard to install anything when you're not logged in as admin/root. There's the HUGE advantage of OS-X and *ix. If the MS OS would require another login (just like OS-X and *ix) the problems would never have proliferated.
 
true, however you don't have to be logged in as admin (in xp) - people do it though because a lot of software will refuse to install and sometimes refuse to run unless logged in as administrator.
 
quite true. WinXP Home is the biggest culprit IMO. Everyone is admin by default at computer setup time. Soooo many XP accounts have no passwords at all.
frown.gif
 
I work on computers (Macs, mostly) and my colleagues are the PC guys. I wouldn't switch with them for 2x the money.
And most of the time, they have to unrestrict user's rights because many software packages just won't install or run properly unless you're an admin.

Windows does many things well - and considering the money dumped into it, it should be the best there is - but it's not all that great unless you're a very worthy person, technically speaking.

The ONLY thing that makes my Mac(s) less worthy is the unavailability of certain software packages.
It's getting better since OS X has taken over, and with apps like Citrix and Terminal Services for Windows, I can do everything from my Mac. Don't even need to boot into "Boot Camp" to run XP - but I do to show off how freakin' fast it is at work. The HP laptops get smoked by this thing, and not a single virus or pop-up.
smile.gif


Scott
 
I agree completely with you ScottB. Mac OS X is simply the better O/S no matter what anybody says. I almost started moving away from Macs back to Windows a while back because so much stuff would not work in Mac OS X-printers, scanners, etc. It seems better now and just the comfort being online and not facing so much insanity is worth TEN TIMES THE PRICE!

The first computer I ever bought was a Windows XP computer. It was a nice machine but I went Macintosh the next year. There is something about the Mac operating experience that cannot be put into words-it is just smoother and easier to do stuff like computer graphics. Somehow a Mac just seems like a natural O/S. And Windows seems negative somehow.

My own opinion is that Microsoft has a low opinion of the users of their operating systems. As an example look at the ability to easily turn on and turn off services in Mac OS X. If you need a service you turn it on and once done you turn it off. Everything is in English. In Windows lots of stuff is turned on by default even if a person does not need it and forget common English explanations for what the service is and what it does. You can't turn off Remote Procedure Call. I think Microsoft turns on so many services because they don't want to have to explain to somebody how to turn something they need on. But all of that stuff SHOULD BE OFF UNLESS NEEDED! For the sake of security that stuff should be off unless a computer user needs it. In Windows you have to search hard to find the services and when you get there it looks like the descriptions for those services were orginally written in Russian!

Another example. In Mac OS X the root or superuser account is disabled by default. Something like this could not be put into Windows XP? Windows Vista so far is using a weird Draconian like security. Why is design so hard at Microsoft? Heck, can't they at least just copy Windows XP?

Someday I think it may be necessary to put a Windows GUI (graphical user interface) on BSD like what Apple did.

I know one thing for sure-if Windows Vista is a flop I am done forever with Microsoft.
 
That should have been 'copy Apple Macintosh X' up above.

It has been my experience with Mac computers that even if you should have any serious software problems almost any software issue on an Apple computer can be cured with one program-DiskWarrior. If a person has DiskWarrior and Tech Tool Pro you have all the maintenance software you will ever need.

Security software is rare for a Mac-Macs simply don't need much in the way of such stuff. But antivirus software like VirusBarrier and Norton Antivirus for the Macintosh and antispyware software like MacScan are available. And a person can turn on the firewall included with the O/S.

One of the most telling security points for the Mac is that a lot of people today STILL run Macs on the internet with the firewall turned off and no antivirus and no antispyware. How long would a Windows XP computer last with no firewall, antivirus program, and antispyware? In literally MINUTES the Windows computer would probably be compromised.
 
Couldn't agree more, Mystic.
I've been a Mac user/owner since 1985, and I would never use anything else (that exists today anyway)
I never try to convince anyone to switch - why do I care?
I use what I see as the most stable/secure/and enjoyable OS/hardware made for the desktop (and servers too now)
If nobody else in the world used a Mac, I still would - their loss.

Scott
 
Personally,

I use Solaris or Linux for my servers and firewall.

I use Windows inside the firewall, but no Microsoft Browser or Mail solutions, and Star Office as my office suite.

I have a Dell running XP Home with the original software load from back in 2002. It runs fine. I run McAfee anti-virus and that's it.

Of course, not allowing my daughter to install any software on her PC (no administrator rights) and no IE cuts down on the problems from her end of the universe.

I'd like to replace my Sun Ultra30 at sometime, but it keeps plugging away. I have an Ultra5 on my desktop for when I VPN into the work network to work from home.
 
Wow, this thread is just full of Microsoft outers!

quote:

And no re-activation dance if I upgrade a mobo.

Not true if you have a volume licensing agreement. Obviously you must work in a small shop though...why in the world would you yack around with upgrading a mobo on a corporate desktop? That's a waste of time and money.

quote:

As an example look at the ability to easily turn on and turn off services in Mac OS X

Turning services off and on is a piece of cake in 2000/XP.

quote:

NO SCRIPT KIDDIE can get at that Windows XP computer if it is offline unless they break into your house.

You have heard of social engineering, haven't you? Even Mitnick used social engineering for most of his attacks. It's easier than breaking through multiple layers of security, and most people will fall for it.

Someone mentioned the Novell Linux desktop. Let's hope that has the level of managability of Windows Group Policy, which is hands down the best way to manage desktop and laptop computers in an enterprise. Everything is scriptable, if you can learn a little VB. The best thing also about running later versions of the MS OS is that Group Policy functionality is extended for every later version of the OS (XP, SP1, SP2, etc).

We are testing Vista and we really like it. It runs fantastic on even the older desktops we have (4 year replacement cycle). By the time it is released, the slowest machine in our enterprise will be 2800 mhz with 1GB, so I don't anticipate any problems running it. We may leave the eye candy off on the older machines, they are segregated by type in Active Directory and Group Policy.
 
I tried to use Windows XP using an account with fewer privileges. It is hard to run Windows XP that way. I think you can make a Windows XP computer REASONABLY safe if you keep the computer updated with Windows updates, have a good antivirus program, antispyware program, and firewall BEFORE you ever get on the internet, and keep those programs updated, and you probably should use Firefox and Thunderbird rather then Microsoft software like Internet Explorer and Outlook Express. It is possible to get free software for Firefox that will not allow any scripts to run unless the computer operator wants for a script to run. It has been my experience that with that setup you get zero or near zero spyware. You can also try to shut down unnecessary services but this is much harder to do in Windows then in Mac OS X. In fact in Mac OS X all of the services are shut down by default although for some strange reason the firewall is turned off when you buy a new computer. You have to turn the firewall on. Remote Procedure Call on a Windows computer CANNOT be shut down. It is too essential to the O/S. The best you can do is have a firewall that can block the ports used by RPC. Perhaps on Windows Vista this will be different. But the security so far on Windows Vista is Draconian and very uncomfortable. Apple and others seem to be able to make security better without going to much extreme measures.

The fact that so many services are turned on by default in Windows XP AND hard for the average computer operator to shut down (or even figure out what you can shut down) is a good example in my opinion of how Windows is unsafe by design.

Any reasonably skilled script kiddie can break into a Windows computer if they really want to. But if your computer is relatively safe compared to most others the script kiddies will look for the easy target (unless they have some reason to target you in particular). Now, any computer can be broken into by an expert. Imagine what the NSA could do with your computer if they took an interest in you. And breaking into a Unix or BSD or Linux or Mac OS X computer requires a higher level of skill. The bad guys at that level are unlikely to target Average Joe's computer. The bad guys at that level are going after major targets. If EVERY person who has a computer would take just reasonable measures to protect their computers the amount of nonsense that goes on would decline in a major manner.

Regardless what computer O/S you decide to use the best and safest thing is to be sure you back up everything to something that is not connected to the computer. The worst anybody can do is erase your hard drive or steal your laptop. If somebody erases your hard drive it is a hassle to have to re-install everything but at least you have lost nothing but some time. Then the people who tried to hurt you have achieved nothing.

You need levels of protection in addition to backup. You need good security software and encryption if you have important documents like bank information and stuff like that on your computer. If you have the money you can increase security by the Red Computer/Black Computer concept. The computers that are connected to the internet are not connected to the computers that have important information. For example, you could use a Mac Mini for the internet because of the greater security and use your Windows XP computer offline. NO SCRIPT KIDDIE can get at that Windows XP computer if it is offline unless they break into your house. And there is no real reason to upgrade that Windows XP computer if you don't want to. You could use Windows XP for the next ten years if the computer is not hooked up online. No worries about having to find software and hardware upgrades and driver updates so that you can continue to use your scanner, printer, whatever. If Windows Vista turns out to be a flop it would be the least of your worries.

Some security experts are recommending that people switch to non-Windows computers or use a Mac online and a Windows computer offline.

Now if Windows Vista really does turn out to be good (personally I doubt that very much but perhaps I have become too negative) then Windows computers will become very desirable again. Let's face it Windows computers can be cheaper then Apple computers and you can get a Windows computer custom built and get exactly what you need. And Microsoft is about 90%-95% of all desktops and all software and hardware drivers are written for Microsoft O/Ss. If Windows Vista actually turns out to be worthwhile I will be one of the first installing it on my Windows computer.

But I will not hold my breath expecting it.
 
Good luck, Brons2, you'll need it.
Even M$' own specs on hardware needed to run Vister is insane - your list above will not run it worth 2¢ - assuming it will even install on it.
Not sure what a "Microsoft outer" is though...
 
It runs fine on an Athlon XP 2800+ with 1GB of RAM in our testing with the eye candy off.

It runs fine with the eye candy ON, on our latest corporate desktops, which are P4 (Pentium D?) dual core something or anothers with 1GB of RAM. (HP dc5100sff I think it is, I don't pay that close of attention to the model numbers) These desktops btw cost us $534 with our volume discount. We could upgrade them to 2GB and still be out the door for around $575.

All our in-house development efforts are going VB.NET and SQL 2005, and we want Vista. We have Software Assurance, so it won't cost us anything beyond the normal yearly renewals.

The sky is not falling. The new OS will work fine, with the proper planning and preparation. We are putting in the groundwork now.
 
Thats one thing I hated about XP - the ey candy, I want something simple and no frills, so my XP installation looks like win95 LOL.

The whole re-activation thing is ridiculous, it will be cracked.
 
This is the "Big News" for Vista this week--Vista Basic gets a new default color scheme.

Overview: http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_scrapmetal.asp

Full MS Blog w/pics:
http://blogs.technet.com/windowsvista/archive/2006/07/06/440510.aspx

I'm actually struck at how Microsoft can't sell this product to the masses. It MUST rely on it's market dominance to force it down our throats. Win 3.1, Win 95 and Win XP were all "wanted" by people. Vista isn't wanted by people.

And besides, if you want eye candy, just download the Vista theme on your XP box. Simple as that.

For people to get excited about a new default color scheme, there must be oh so very little to talk about regarding Vista!
 
Running XP Pro at the moment, but am trying to see if I can convert to some form of unix. Tried a couple of years ago to learn Linux, but the learning curve was too steep. At my age, these things come harder then they used to. I really miss my OS2 Warp 3 I ran on my old BBS.
 
Yup, fraid so, I was a beta tester for V1.0 & 2.0.

I still have a virgin copy of Warp 3.0 Server. After I retired I managed to wangle a copy of Warp 4, but never installed it. Finally lost it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom