2002 gmc envoy was thinking of switching of dino any thoughts.
will synthetic help quiet engine noise
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gtx 5-30
Oils can be slightly different in viscosity even in the same grade and some vehicle seem to prefer one oil over another. My Sebring was a little louder with the Valvoline Synpower then with the Pennzoil Platinum that is in it now.
It is a trial and error thing.
What are you getting, a valvetrain tick?
It is a trial and error thing.
What are you getting, a valvetrain tick?
Another vote for the PP 5W30.
Synpower 5w30.
"will synthetic help quiet engine noise"
Yes, if the noise is piston slap during warm-up.
Yes, if the noise is piston slap during warm-up.
Alot of guys with that vehicle are running Mobil 1 5W-30, and they seem to be happy. I have not gotten to that point yet, still in a AutoRX rinse. I will be putting in Amsoil 5W-30.
Odd...synthetic has the exact opposite effect on my piston slap. It becomes completely unbearable. The only oil that I've found that works 100% of the time is Dino Valvoline 5w30. Obviously I haven't tried every single boutique brand and grade on the market, but I have gone through every major brand...I'm not loyal to anybody any more.
My worst experience was with M1...After a month of listening to the racket, I had to get rid of it. It would knock for 1 or 2 minutes or the first several miles. That's metal-on-metal contact...unprotected and unlubricated. In summary, I give a big thumbs down to all synthetics, especially M1. I'm sure it's great in a race car, but if you start your car every day like me, it's the pits.
Note: your experience may vary. NutBuster's opinions do not represent those of BITOG, its members, or its sponsors.
My worst experience was with M1...After a month of listening to the racket, I had to get rid of it. It would knock for 1 or 2 minutes or the first several miles. That's metal-on-metal contact...unprotected and unlubricated. In summary, I give a big thumbs down to all synthetics, especially M1. I'm sure it's great in a race car, but if you start your car every day like me, it's the pits.
Note: your experience may vary. NutBuster's opinions do not represent those of BITOG, its members, or its sponsors.
I don't see how ANY oil could have an effect on piston slap noise. Piston slap occurs when the piston is hardly moving at all- its very near TDC and the sound is caused by the piston rocking side to side in the bore as the connecting rod changes angle as the crank crosses over TDC. Since the piston isn't actually moving up and down, just quickly tilting side-to-side and the sound is the skirt clicking against the bore, how can oil affect it? I guess a REALLY thick gooey oil could muffle it slightly, but I wouldn't want all the other downsides that come with that.
Piston slap is also completely harmless, although it sounds horrible. I built one of my 440s with short-skirt hypereutectic pistons, centered-pin style (factory pistons have offset pins to reduce piston slap at the expense of more friction throughout the stroke), and the pistons are fitted on the loose end of the tolerance range to avoid any risk of galling during extended high load operation when they get fully heat soaked- which is always a risk with HE pistons. I swear it sounds like a 7.3L Powerstroke when its cold and takes a solid 10 minutes for the sound to completely go away in the winter, but it has zero oil consumption after 25,000 miles on these pistons. Fear of piston-slap is greatly overblown, IMO. People have just come to expect near-silent engines, when there's really no engineering reason for that to be necessary.
Piston slap is also completely harmless, although it sounds horrible. I built one of my 440s with short-skirt hypereutectic pistons, centered-pin style (factory pistons have offset pins to reduce piston slap at the expense of more friction throughout the stroke), and the pistons are fitted on the loose end of the tolerance range to avoid any risk of galling during extended high load operation when they get fully heat soaked- which is always a risk with HE pistons. I swear it sounds like a 7.3L Powerstroke when its cold and takes a solid 10 minutes for the sound to completely go away in the winter, but it has zero oil consumption after 25,000 miles on these pistons. Fear of piston-slap is greatly overblown, IMO. People have just come to expect near-silent engines, when there's really no engineering reason for that to be necessary.
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
I don't see how ANY oil could have an effect on piston slap noise.
Who knows...maybe it's the magic of surface tension, or perhaps it's the properties of molecular uniformity. Whatever it is, synthetic exacerbates piston slap in my car on a cold startup. I ran several brands of synth from the day I bought it, until a few years ago. After using Penz YB and Castrol, I tried Valvoline as a lark about a year ago, and haven't heard a single tap since then. I gave away my stash of synthetic, and never looked back.
BTW, I have a 1998 LS1 with 190K miles. The piston slap issue is well documented with these cars. I do understand that it's not a mechanical problem, and usually not even related to wear, but more a by-product of the piston design. It's unfortunate that some folks are spending such big bucks on synthetic and suffering needlessly.
I don't see how ANY oil could have an effect on piston slap noise.
Who knows...maybe it's the magic of surface tension, or perhaps it's the properties of molecular uniformity. Whatever it is, synthetic exacerbates piston slap in my car on a cold startup. I ran several brands of synth from the day I bought it, until a few years ago. After using Penz YB and Castrol, I tried Valvoline as a lark about a year ago, and haven't heard a single tap since then. I gave away my stash of synthetic, and never looked back.
BTW, I have a 1998 LS1 with 190K miles. The piston slap issue is well documented with these cars. I do understand that it's not a mechanical problem, and usually not even related to wear, but more a by-product of the piston design. It's unfortunate that some folks are spending such big bucks on synthetic and suffering needlessly.
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
I don't see how ANY oil could have an effect on piston slap noise. Piston slap occurs when the piston is hardly moving at all- its very near TDC and the sound is caused by the piston rocking side to side in the bore as the connecting rod changes angle as the crank crosses over TDC. Since the piston isn't actually moving up and down, just quickly tilting side-to-side and the sound is the skirt clicking against the bore, how can oil affect it? I guess a REALLY thick gooey oil could muffle it slightly, but I wouldn't want all the other downsides that come with that.
Piston slap is also completely harmless, although it sounds horrible. I built one of my 440s with short-skirt hypereutectic pistons, centered-pin style (factory pistons have offset pins to reduce piston slap at the expense of more friction throughout the stroke), and the pistons are fitted on the loose end of the tolerance range to avoid any risk of galling during extended high load operation when they get fully heat soaked- which is always a risk with HE pistons. I swear it sounds like a 7.3L Powerstroke when its cold and takes a solid 10 minutes for the sound to completely go away in the winter, but it has zero oil consumption after 25,000 miles on these pistons. Fear of piston-slap is greatly overblown, IMO. People have just come to expect near-silent engines, when there's really no engineering reason for that to be necessary.
you fit hyperutectic pistons on the loose end to compensate for growth at high temps?
It is hyperutectic pistons high silicone content that keeps the pistons from growing at high temps from what I knew.
Forged pistons need extra clearence for growth at high temps, I have a set of Wiesco pistons set up at .005 piston to wall and it sounds like a diesel when I start it.
From past experience hyperutectics need only .002 for most engines, now they do have many other suggestions for other type of engine use, marine,nitrous,circle track etc etc...
Quote:
KB pistons can be installed tighter than other performance pistons. A close fitting piston rocks less, supports the rings better and seals the engine for maximum power. When a loose fit engine is desired the rigid skirt design of the KB piston allows the builder a choice without fear of piston damage. Seethe clearance chart below for minimum and realistic maximum loose fit clearance for KB pistons.
Quote:
http://kb-silvolite.com/clearance_pop.php
I don't see how ANY oil could have an effect on piston slap noise. Piston slap occurs when the piston is hardly moving at all- its very near TDC and the sound is caused by the piston rocking side to side in the bore as the connecting rod changes angle as the crank crosses over TDC. Since the piston isn't actually moving up and down, just quickly tilting side-to-side and the sound is the skirt clicking against the bore, how can oil affect it? I guess a REALLY thick gooey oil could muffle it slightly, but I wouldn't want all the other downsides that come with that.
Piston slap is also completely harmless, although it sounds horrible. I built one of my 440s with short-skirt hypereutectic pistons, centered-pin style (factory pistons have offset pins to reduce piston slap at the expense of more friction throughout the stroke), and the pistons are fitted on the loose end of the tolerance range to avoid any risk of galling during extended high load operation when they get fully heat soaked- which is always a risk with HE pistons. I swear it sounds like a 7.3L Powerstroke when its cold and takes a solid 10 minutes for the sound to completely go away in the winter, but it has zero oil consumption after 25,000 miles on these pistons. Fear of piston-slap is greatly overblown, IMO. People have just come to expect near-silent engines, when there's really no engineering reason for that to be necessary.
you fit hyperutectic pistons on the loose end to compensate for growth at high temps?
It is hyperutectic pistons high silicone content that keeps the pistons from growing at high temps from what I knew.
Forged pistons need extra clearence for growth at high temps, I have a set of Wiesco pistons set up at .005 piston to wall and it sounds like a diesel when I start it.
From past experience hyperutectics need only .002 for most engines, now they do have many other suggestions for other type of engine use, marine,nitrous,circle track etc etc...
Quote:
KB pistons can be installed tighter than other performance pistons. A close fitting piston rocks less, supports the rings better and seals the engine for maximum power. When a loose fit engine is desired the rigid skirt design of the KB piston allows the builder a choice without fear of piston damage. Seethe clearance chart below for minimum and realistic maximum loose fit clearance for KB pistons.
Quote:
http://kb-silvolite.com/clearance_pop.php
Last edited:
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- Dec 30, 2006
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Originally Posted By: NutBuster
Odd...synthetic has the exact opposite effect on my piston slap. It becomes completely unbearable. The only oil that I've found that works 100% of the time is Dino Valvoline 5w30. Obviously I haven't tried every single boutique brand and grade on the market, but I have gone through every major brand...I'm not loyal to anybody any more.
My worst experience was with M1...After a month of listening to the racket, I had to get rid of it. It would knock for 1 or 2 minutes or the first several miles. That's metal-on-metal contact...unprotected and unlubricated. In summary, I give a big thumbs down to all synthetics, especially M1. I'm sure it's great in a race car, but if you start your car every day like me, it's the pits.
Note: your experience may vary. NutBuster's opinions do not represent those of BITOG, its members, or its sponsors.
That`s the same effect I`ve had as well with synthetics. In my experiences no matter what kind`ve car it`s been,dinos have always been smoother and quieter in the engine. In the tranny and rear diffs,synths work much better,but in the engine,dinos have always been much better,at least with my experiences.
Odd...synthetic has the exact opposite effect on my piston slap. It becomes completely unbearable. The only oil that I've found that works 100% of the time is Dino Valvoline 5w30. Obviously I haven't tried every single boutique brand and grade on the market, but I have gone through every major brand...I'm not loyal to anybody any more.
My worst experience was with M1...After a month of listening to the racket, I had to get rid of it. It would knock for 1 or 2 minutes or the first several miles. That's metal-on-metal contact...unprotected and unlubricated. In summary, I give a big thumbs down to all synthetics, especially M1. I'm sure it's great in a race car, but if you start your car every day like me, it's the pits.
Note: your experience may vary. NutBuster's opinions do not represent those of BITOG, its members, or its sponsors.
That`s the same effect I`ve had as well with synthetics. In my experiences no matter what kind`ve car it`s been,dinos have always been smoother and quieter in the engine. In the tranny and rear diffs,synths work much better,but in the engine,dinos have always been much better,at least with my experiences.
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To add to my post..........smoothest running oils in my experience are Valvoline dino and Pennzoil yb dino.
Originally Posted By: NutBuster
Odd...synthetic has the exact opposite effect on my piston slap. It becomes completely unbearable. The only oil that I've found that works 100% of the time is Dino Valvoline 5w30. Obviously I haven't tried every single boutique brand and grade on the market, but I have gone through every major brand...I'm not loyal to anybody any more.
My worst experience was with M1...After a month of listening to the racket, I had to get rid of it. It would knock for 1 or 2 minutes or the first several miles. That's metal-on-metal contact...unprotected and unlubricated. In summary, I give a big thumbs down to all synthetics, especially M1. I'm sure it's great in a race car, but if you start your car every day like me, it's the pits.
Note: your experience may vary. NutBuster's opinions do not represent those of BITOG, its members, or its sponsors.
Thats odd. My brother in law went from dino to M1 5-30EP in his 02 Chevy truck with piston slap, and it was much quiter.
Odd...synthetic has the exact opposite effect on my piston slap. It becomes completely unbearable. The only oil that I've found that works 100% of the time is Dino Valvoline 5w30. Obviously I haven't tried every single boutique brand and grade on the market, but I have gone through every major brand...I'm not loyal to anybody any more.
My worst experience was with M1...After a month of listening to the racket, I had to get rid of it. It would knock for 1 or 2 minutes or the first several miles. That's metal-on-metal contact...unprotected and unlubricated. In summary, I give a big thumbs down to all synthetics, especially M1. I'm sure it's great in a race car, but if you start your car every day like me, it's the pits.
Note: your experience may vary. NutBuster's opinions do not represent those of BITOG, its members, or its sponsors.
Thats odd. My brother in law went from dino to M1 5-30EP in his 02 Chevy truck with piston slap, and it was much quiter.
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Originally Posted By: NutBuster
My worst experience was with M1...After a month of listening to the racket, I had to get rid of it. It would knock for 1 or 2 minutes or the first several miles.
You're not the only one to notice that trend M1 + loud piston slap
My worst experience was with M1...After a month of listening to the racket, I had to get rid of it. It would knock for 1 or 2 minutes or the first several miles.
You're not the only one to notice that trend M1 + loud piston slap
Originally Posted By: jorton
"will synthetic help quiet engine noise"
Yes, if the noise is piston slap during warm-up.
I disagree with you. Piston slap is a design flaw in the GM engines. No oil can cure this problem, only dampen it at best.
"will synthetic help quiet engine noise"
Yes, if the noise is piston slap during warm-up.
I disagree with you. Piston slap is a design flaw in the GM engines. No oil can cure this problem, only dampen it at best.
Originally Posted By: lazaro
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
you fit hyperutectic pistons on the loose end to compensate for growth at high temps?
It is hyperutectic pistons high silicone content that keeps the pistons from growing at high temps from what I knew.
That is true, and my "loose" HE pistons are still much tighter than you would fit forged pistons or even stock pistons. What I did is to fit the HE pistons at the loose end of the range recommended by Keith Black, not "loose" in general when compared to stock or forged pistons- They're fit WAY tighter than you'd fit forged pistons. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. The noise in my case is aggravated by the fact that I picked a short-skirt piston, I'm not sure I would do that again all things considered. If I were planning to rev the engine to 6500, the weight savings would be worth it... but fer cripes sake, its a 440! I barely ever get it over 4000.
The danger, IMO, with HE pistons is that they aren't completely immune to expansion, they just do so much more slowly so that when you push the engine very hard for long periods, you can get galling if you fit them at the tight end of the range. It also means when you do get some piston slap with HEs, it takes a lot longer for it to go away during warmup than it would for forged pistons. Its EXACTLY what GM got a black eye about some of their engines, but what a crock that was! There was *nothing* wrong with those engines- ignorant owners that think piston slap from a *properly* set up engine is a warranty problem should have their licenses revoked.
Newer pistons are also usually teflon coated nowdays which solves most all of those problems. I built that engine long enough ago that it has "naked" HE pistons. Other than the noise, though, I've got no complaints about the way it runs. Well, maybe I could gripe about how much gas it burns... but that's my own fault
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
you fit hyperutectic pistons on the loose end to compensate for growth at high temps?
It is hyperutectic pistons high silicone content that keeps the pistons from growing at high temps from what I knew.
That is true, and my "loose" HE pistons are still much tighter than you would fit forged pistons or even stock pistons. What I did is to fit the HE pistons at the loose end of the range recommended by Keith Black, not "loose" in general when compared to stock or forged pistons- They're fit WAY tighter than you'd fit forged pistons. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. The noise in my case is aggravated by the fact that I picked a short-skirt piston, I'm not sure I would do that again all things considered. If I were planning to rev the engine to 6500, the weight savings would be worth it... but fer cripes sake, its a 440! I barely ever get it over 4000.
The danger, IMO, with HE pistons is that they aren't completely immune to expansion, they just do so much more slowly so that when you push the engine very hard for long periods, you can get galling if you fit them at the tight end of the range. It also means when you do get some piston slap with HEs, it takes a lot longer for it to go away during warmup than it would for forged pistons. Its EXACTLY what GM got a black eye about some of their engines, but what a crock that was! There was *nothing* wrong with those engines- ignorant owners that think piston slap from a *properly* set up engine is a warranty problem should have their licenses revoked.
Newer pistons are also usually teflon coated nowdays which solves most all of those problems. I built that engine long enough ago that it has "naked" HE pistons. Other than the noise, though, I've got no complaints about the way it runs. Well, maybe I could gripe about how much gas it burns... but that's my own fault
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