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Will I get banned if I complain about Toyota?
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Originally Posted by edwardh1
a little off topic but there is an intangible in volt vs rav4 discussion.
My last GM car was a new 84 Olds ciera
nice body, gas mileage ride, room etc however
in first year 10,000 miles
radio broke
air con fan broke
rear shock leaked
recall to add a vibration damper on exhaust system
had a block coolant leak 1 drop a night that required replace head gasket, then remove and replace with new head, then 2 weeks later replace the short block under warranty $$$$$$$$$ and 6 other trips for things that broke.
Meanwhile GM execs made millions.
since 84 2 hondas, 1 infiniti, 3 toyotas.
Last Toyota in my family was an 83/84? Cressida. Replaced the engine twice due to catastrophic failure...twice within first 50k miles. Electronics were a non stop nightmare, the dealer said it was common on these vehicles. Seems like Toyota has become reliable since the mid 80s, but I am not giving them my money.
a little off topic but there is an intangible in volt vs rav4 discussion.
My last GM car was a new 84 Olds ciera
nice body, gas mileage ride, room etc however
in first year 10,000 miles
radio broke
air con fan broke
rear shock leaked
recall to add a vibration damper on exhaust system
had a block coolant leak 1 drop a night that required replace head gasket, then remove and replace with new head, then 2 weeks later replace the short block under warranty $$$$$$$$$ and 6 other trips for things that broke.
Meanwhile GM execs made millions.
since 84 2 hondas, 1 infiniti, 3 toyotas.
Last Toyota in my family was an 83/84? Cressida. Replaced the engine twice due to catastrophic failure...twice within first 50k miles. Electronics were a non stop nightmare, the dealer said it was common on these vehicles. Seems like Toyota has become reliable since the mid 80s, but I am not giving them my money.
Originally Posted by JohnG
So it seems that the new 2021 Toyota RAV4 Prime is a remake of the Chevrolet Volt drive train! Yeah, they may have done it a little bit better by making it fast as well as 4 wheel drive, but it's basically the same principal.
RAV4 Prime curb weight is est. 3800 lbs.
Volt curb weight is 3500 lbs.
RAV4 Prime 302 hp all-wheel drive.
Volt 149 hp front wheel drive.
RAV4 Prime 39 miles all electric.
Volt 53 miles all electric.
Both are hybrids with gasoline engines so overall range is not a consideration.
The Toyota is hardly a remake of the Chevy but nice try...
If you want to bring up how people regard Toyota on this forum, it would be helpful if you brought a compelling point to the discussion.
Making a statement that the RAV4 Prime is a remake of the Chevy Volt drive train is both inaccurate and silly. They're just worlds apart from one another. You're just no helping what appears to be your cause in this situation.
So it seems that the new 2021 Toyota RAV4 Prime is a remake of the Chevrolet Volt drive train! Yeah, they may have done it a little bit better by making it fast as well as 4 wheel drive, but it's basically the same principal.
RAV4 Prime curb weight is est. 3800 lbs.
Volt curb weight is 3500 lbs.
RAV4 Prime 302 hp all-wheel drive.
Volt 149 hp front wheel drive.
RAV4 Prime 39 miles all electric.
Volt 53 miles all electric.
Both are hybrids with gasoline engines so overall range is not a consideration.
The Toyota is hardly a remake of the Chevy but nice try...
If you want to bring up how people regard Toyota on this forum, it would be helpful if you brought a compelling point to the discussion.
Making a statement that the RAV4 Prime is a remake of the Chevy Volt drive train is both inaccurate and silly. They're just worlds apart from one another. You're just no helping what appears to be your cause in this situation.
You are believing reporters opinions. The Volt had one of the largest batteries for a plug in, maybe the largest? Toyota does copy GM a lot, it goes back to when they copied the Chev inline six for the early Landcruisers. Toyota is/was known as the Japanese GM.
I don't think many if any stock gas cars could keep up with a Volt going from a dead start up a steep hill to about 50 mph. I have seen them just fly around here. Like most electric cars, off the line and up steep grades from a stop they are very fast.
People who drive within the 40 mile range will be looking for ways to run the engine just to use up some gas and circulate the oil, if the Rav4 Prime is like a Volt.
I don't think many if any stock gas cars could keep up with a Volt going from a dead start up a steep hill to about 50 mph. I have seen them just fly around here. Like most electric cars, off the line and up steep grades from a stop they are very fast.
People who drive within the 40 mile range will be looking for ways to run the engine just to use up some gas and circulate the oil, if the Rav4 Prime is like a Volt.
Quote
Making a statement that the RAV4 Prime is a remake of the Chevy Volt drive train is both inaccurate and silly. They're just worlds apart from one another. You're just no helping what appears to be your cause in this situation.
They are both series hybrids, so they are the same to a degree. And yes, it was meant to be a little silly, but it got your attention. Toyota did figure out, no doubt from Tesla sales figures, that people also wanted FAST. Then they had the audacity to stick it in a small SUV, WHICH EVERYBODY WANTS. Then added all wheel drive as a bonus! Sales will be great, even at the dealer premium prices.
I did say it looked to be improved in a number of ways. Chevy went for economy, and directed sales toward the small portion of people that could understand it, and actually drove to work every day.
That was NOT where the sales were, which was later proven by Tesla and the increased number of SUV sales. Don't forget, we're talking about 2010 here. All of the current electronics were just not available at that time. Take that Volt and make it so the engine and battery would drive the car at the same time, and nothing could beat it to 100 mph in 2010.
Making a statement that the RAV4 Prime is a remake of the Chevy Volt drive train is both inaccurate and silly. They're just worlds apart from one another. You're just no helping what appears to be your cause in this situation.
They are both series hybrids, so they are the same to a degree. And yes, it was meant to be a little silly, but it got your attention. Toyota did figure out, no doubt from Tesla sales figures, that people also wanted FAST. Then they had the audacity to stick it in a small SUV, WHICH EVERYBODY WANTS. Then added all wheel drive as a bonus! Sales will be great, even at the dealer premium prices.
I did say it looked to be improved in a number of ways. Chevy went for economy, and directed sales toward the small portion of people that could understand it, and actually drove to work every day.
That was NOT where the sales were, which was later proven by Tesla and the increased number of SUV sales. Don't forget, we're talking about 2010 here. All of the current electronics were just not available at that time. Take that Volt and make it so the engine and battery would drive the car at the same time, and nothing could beat it to 100 mph in 2010.
Originally Posted by JohnG
They are both series hybrids, so they are the same to a degree. And yes, it was meant to be a little silly, but it got your attention. Toyota did figure out, no doubt from Tesla sales figures, that people also wanted FAST. Then they had the audacity to stick it in a small SUV, WHICH EVERYBODY WANTS. Then added all wheel drive as a bonus! Sales will be great, even at the dealer premium prices.
I did say it looked to be improved in a number of ways. Chevy went for economy, and directed sales toward the small portion of people that could understand it, and actually drove to work every day.
That was NOT where the sales were, which was later proven by Tesla and the increased number of SUV sales. Don't forget, we're talking about 2010 here. All of the current electronics were just not available at that time. Take that Volt and make it so the engine and battery would drive the car at the same time, and nothing could beat it to 100 mph in 2010.
So now you've basically contradicted most of the things you said in your first post with your added comment that you were just doing it to get people to respond.
Congratulations.
They are both series hybrids, so they are the same to a degree. And yes, it was meant to be a little silly, but it got your attention. Toyota did figure out, no doubt from Tesla sales figures, that people also wanted FAST. Then they had the audacity to stick it in a small SUV, WHICH EVERYBODY WANTS. Then added all wheel drive as a bonus! Sales will be great, even at the dealer premium prices.
I did say it looked to be improved in a number of ways. Chevy went for economy, and directed sales toward the small portion of people that could understand it, and actually drove to work every day.
That was NOT where the sales were, which was later proven by Tesla and the increased number of SUV sales. Don't forget, we're talking about 2010 here. All of the current electronics were just not available at that time. Take that Volt and make it so the engine and battery would drive the car at the same time, and nothing could beat it to 100 mph in 2010.
So now you've basically contradicted most of the things you said in your first post with your added comment that you were just doing it to get people to respond.
Congratulations.
JHZR2
Staff member
I'll say this. For as ridiculous as I think it is for most folks to think that they need these awd type systems to get around in 2" of snow... imo the ideal way to implement these not quite real drive systems is through a hybrid.
And if you have motors front and rear, then notionally you can have regen front and rear. Which is good.
Volt was prior gen tech. When The Volt came out, the Prius had old school NiMH tech. GM pushed the envelope and learned lessons. Now others benefit.
The volt was also more of a 2+2 vehicle, and so it wasn't the most utilitarian time most folks.
And if you have motors front and rear, then notionally you can have regen front and rear. Which is good.
Volt was prior gen tech. When The Volt came out, the Prius had old school NiMH tech. GM pushed the envelope and learned lessons. Now others benefit.
The volt was also more of a 2+2 vehicle, and so it wasn't the most utilitarian time most folks.
Originally Posted by UncleDave
The GM marketing team did a lousy job selling the volt, still to this day people don't understand how it works/ worked.
When the cars finally arrived the dealers trashed it by marking up the early ones an obscene amount souring many prospective buyers. I remember some guys bumped it 20K.
+1
The GM marketing team did a lousy job selling the volt, still to this day people don't understand how it works/ worked.
When the cars finally arrived the dealers trashed it by marking up the early ones an obscene amount souring many prospective buyers. I remember some guys bumped it 20K.
+1
Originally Posted by edwardh1
a little off topic but there is an intangible in volt vs rav4 discussion.
My last GM car was a new 84 Olds ciera
nice body, gas mileage ride, room etc however
in first year 10,000 miles
radio broke
air con fan broke
rear shock leaked
recall to add a vibration damper on exhaust system
had a block coolant leak 1 drop a night that required replace head gasket, then remove and replace with new head, then 2 weeks later replace the short block under warranty $$$$$$$$$ and 6 other trips for things that broke.
Meanwhile GM execs made millions.
since 84 2 hondas, 1 infiniti, 3 toyotas.
My final GM was a new 87 Olds Ciera a year in and out of the shop , I finally bought a Toyota.
a little off topic but there is an intangible in volt vs rav4 discussion.
My last GM car was a new 84 Olds ciera
nice body, gas mileage ride, room etc however
in first year 10,000 miles
radio broke
air con fan broke
rear shock leaked
recall to add a vibration damper on exhaust system
had a block coolant leak 1 drop a night that required replace head gasket, then remove and replace with new head, then 2 weeks later replace the short block under warranty $$$$$$$$$ and 6 other trips for things that broke.
Meanwhile GM execs made millions.
since 84 2 hondas, 1 infiniti, 3 toyotas.
My final GM was a new 87 Olds Ciera a year in and out of the shop , I finally bought a Toyota.
The Volt was a great car. People around here love 'em. There are tons running around.
The Bolt does well now; personally gimme a Volt over a Bolt or Leaf.
As far as Toylettas, nobody does hybrids like Toyota. They been at it for awhile...
If I were buying now, the CR-V Hybrid would be on top of my list.
The Bolt does well now; personally gimme a Volt over a Bolt or Leaf.
As far as Toylettas, nobody does hybrids like Toyota. They been at it for awhile...
If I were buying now, the CR-V Hybrid would be on top of my list.
Haven`t yet purchased a Toyota but do think they are well executed. Always have enjoyed reading Bob Lutz`s writings. His opinions are entertaining and insightful
Originally Posted by Barkleymut
Last Toyota in my family was an 83/84? Cressida. Replaced the engine twice due to catastrophic failure...twice within first 50k miles. Electronics were a non stop nightmare, the dealer said it was common on these vehicles. Seems like Toyota has become reliable since the mid 80s, but I am not giving them my money.
Something fishy here. I bought a brand new 84 Cressida when I came back from overseas. Drive her until I gave it to my niece when I bought a new Lexus LS400 in 1995. Niece drove Cressida for another 4-5 years until she wrecked it. The car performed flawlessly for the entire time. Never heard any reports of engine failures and bad electronics.
Last Toyota in my family was an 83/84? Cressida. Replaced the engine twice due to catastrophic failure...twice within first 50k miles. Electronics were a non stop nightmare, the dealer said it was common on these vehicles. Seems like Toyota has become reliable since the mid 80s, but I am not giving them my money.
Something fishy here. I bought a brand new 84 Cressida when I came back from overseas. Drive her until I gave it to my niece when I bought a new Lexus LS400 in 1995. Niece drove Cressida for another 4-5 years until she wrecked it. The car performed flawlessly for the entire time. Never heard any reports of engine failures and bad electronics.
Last edited:
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Ironically the only Volt owner I ever talked to was at a small town gas pump. Had it 4 years, no problems.
He ran plug in M-F but then on WE's took it down to his place on the coast that he described to me. I said wait, you have a big 3 engine Yellow Fin up on slings - so how did you get it down here. Said he paid a commercial guy with an F450, and laughing he'd never trust himself with that boat outside of the water …
Man, I will never be that disciplined ...·
He ran plug in M-F but then on WE's took it down to his place on the coast that he described to me. I said wait, you have a big 3 engine Yellow Fin up on slings - so how did you get it down here. Said he paid a commercial guy with an F450, and laughing he'd never trust himself with that boat outside of the water …
Man, I will never be that disciplined ...·
Toyotas are far from flawless. We had a '99 Sienna that had trim fall off, a bent bent rear axle (no accidents), bad catalytic converter, etc. etc. with less than 100K. Had a Camry where the trunk popped open randomly. I've had far fewer problems with our current Subaru and Honda.
I really like the plug in Hybrid model - enough range for an average commute and gas for long trips.
I really like the plug in Hybrid model - enough range for an average commute and gas for long trips.
Well, my prediction came true at least. Another poster on this board just tried to buy a Rav4 Prime and was blown away by the dealer markup! No sale!
Originally Posted by NO2
Toyotas are far from flawless. We had a '99 Sienna that had trim fall off, a bent bent rear axle (no accidents), bad catalytic converter, etc. etc. with less than 100K. Had a Camry where the trunk popped open randomly. I've had far fewer problems with our current Subaru and Honda.
I really like the plug in Hybrid model - enough range for an average commute and gas for long trips.
Toyota figured out that they will make a lot of money offering simple vehicles. They are awful to drive, but there is a lot of simplicity. My Sienna is afterthought when it comes to quality of fit and finish. Drives awful, super heavy in front. It is raised up Camry, which does not say anything good about it. But, it does its job. Best thing about that vehicle is that when I sit in BMW and look to my left, I feel lucky I do not have to drive it today. But, runs to home depot, shoveling in-laws in third row, or 1-2 road trips a year, it is remarkably practical vehicle. I would get it again just bcs. children. I can see why people who hate cars would get Toyota.
Also, Toyota made great decision to offer Avalon and Lexus ES to consumers who were driving Buick's and Cadillac's. They offered same floating vehicles, just reliable. Financially great decision. Awful cars though. But then they are made for audience that survived 1918 flu pandemic.
Toyotas are far from flawless. We had a '99 Sienna that had trim fall off, a bent bent rear axle (no accidents), bad catalytic converter, etc. etc. with less than 100K. Had a Camry where the trunk popped open randomly. I've had far fewer problems with our current Subaru and Honda.
I really like the plug in Hybrid model - enough range for an average commute and gas for long trips.
Toyota figured out that they will make a lot of money offering simple vehicles. They are awful to drive, but there is a lot of simplicity. My Sienna is afterthought when it comes to quality of fit and finish. Drives awful, super heavy in front. It is raised up Camry, which does not say anything good about it. But, it does its job. Best thing about that vehicle is that when I sit in BMW and look to my left, I feel lucky I do not have to drive it today. But, runs to home depot, shoveling in-laws in third row, or 1-2 road trips a year, it is remarkably practical vehicle. I would get it again just bcs. children. I can see why people who hate cars would get Toyota.
Also, Toyota made great decision to offer Avalon and Lexus ES to consumers who were driving Buick's and Cadillac's. They offered same floating vehicles, just reliable. Financially great decision. Awful cars though. But then they are made for audience that survived 1918 flu pandemic.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by NO2
Toyotas are far from flawless. We had a '99 Sienna that had trim fall off, a bent bent rear axle (no accidents), bad catalytic converter, etc. etc. with less than 100K. Had a Camry where the trunk popped open randomly. I've had far fewer problems with our current Subaru and Honda.
I really like the plug in Hybrid model - enough range for an average commute and gas for long trips.
Toyota figured out that they will make a lot of money offering simple vehicles. They are awful to drive, but there is a lot of simplicity. My Sienna is afterthought when it comes to quality of fit and finish. Drives awful, super heavy in front. It is raised up Camry, which does not say anything good about it. But, it does its job. Best thing about that vehicle is that when I sit in BMW and look to my left, I feel lucky I do not have to drive it today. But, runs to home depot, shoveling in-laws in third row, or 1-2 road trips a year, it is remarkably practical vehicle. I would get it again just bcs. children. I can see why people who hate cars would get Toyota.
Also, Toyota made great decision to offer Avalon and Lexus ES to consumers who were driving Buick's and Cadillac's. They offered same floating vehicles, just reliable. Financially great decision. Awful cars though. But then they are made for audience that survived 1918 flu pandemic.
ROFL....Pure gold. :
Originally Posted by NO2
Toyotas are far from flawless. We had a '99 Sienna that had trim fall off, a bent bent rear axle (no accidents), bad catalytic converter, etc. etc. with less than 100K. Had a Camry where the trunk popped open randomly. I've had far fewer problems with our current Subaru and Honda.
I really like the plug in Hybrid model - enough range for an average commute and gas for long trips.
Toyota figured out that they will make a lot of money offering simple vehicles. They are awful to drive, but there is a lot of simplicity. My Sienna is afterthought when it comes to quality of fit and finish. Drives awful, super heavy in front. It is raised up Camry, which does not say anything good about it. But, it does its job. Best thing about that vehicle is that when I sit in BMW and look to my left, I feel lucky I do not have to drive it today. But, runs to home depot, shoveling in-laws in third row, or 1-2 road trips a year, it is remarkably practical vehicle. I would get it again just bcs. children. I can see why people who hate cars would get Toyota.
Also, Toyota made great decision to offer Avalon and Lexus ES to consumers who were driving Buick's and Cadillac's. They offered same floating vehicles, just reliable. Financially great decision. Awful cars though. But then they are made for audience that survived 1918 flu pandemic.
ROFL....Pure gold. :
Originally Posted by edwardh1
a little off topic but there is an intangible in volt vs rav4 discussion.
My last GM car was a new 84 Olds ciera
nice body, gas mileage ride, room etc however
in first year 10,000 miles
radio broke
air con fan broke
rear shock leaked
recall to add a vibration damper on exhaust system
had a block coolant leak 1 drop a night that required replace head gasket, then remove and replace with new head, then 2 weeks later replace the short block under warranty $$$$$$$$$ and 6 other trips for things that broke.
Meanwhile GM execs made millions.
since 84 2 hondas, 1 infiniti, 3 toyotas.
You wrote my 84 Ciera story, I had transmission issues too. Since then I have not even purchased a Wheel barrow made by GM.
a little off topic but there is an intangible in volt vs rav4 discussion.
My last GM car was a new 84 Olds ciera
nice body, gas mileage ride, room etc however
in first year 10,000 miles
radio broke
air con fan broke
rear shock leaked
recall to add a vibration damper on exhaust system
had a block coolant leak 1 drop a night that required replace head gasket, then remove and replace with new head, then 2 weeks later replace the short block under warranty $$$$$$$$$ and 6 other trips for things that broke.
Meanwhile GM execs made millions.
since 84 2 hondas, 1 infiniti, 3 toyotas.
You wrote my 84 Ciera story, I had transmission issues too. Since then I have not even purchased a Wheel barrow made by GM.
06 tundra was solid. Lots of metal in it in places where the domestics use plastic. Engine and transmission were bulletproof, though it would punish you if you towed heavy with it for long trips- stuff ride, NVH, and it drank fuel. But the mechanicals were sound and the electronics, while surprisingly minimal, were failure-free. Sold it over a 150k. Brakes and wheel bearings were probably it's weakness, but again, we towed near its limit.
We have a used Lexus in the garage. Mechanically it's sound but the electronics are quirky. I don't entirely trust it yet. Add-on warranty has paid for itself.
M
We have a used Lexus in the garage. Mechanically it's sound but the electronics are quirky. I don't entirely trust it yet. Add-on warranty has paid for itself.
M
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